SL2 vs CANON EOS R5

[The206]

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Agreed, if the EOS R5 existed when I bought my SL2 last year then I would most defintely have gone with the R5. But you have to buy the gear that exists as you need it  Last November the R5 did not exist. Doing some tests today with stills

[The206]

Ok so just shot a quick test to see one aspect of what has been troubling me with the SL2 and that is poor ISO performance. As I suspected the eos R5 pretty much blasted the SL2 out of the water. Exact same settings on both cameras, shadows lifted a little equally on both files. I haven't been able to use the SL2 at higher then 400 iso for client work. To me thats just not ok for a camera in 2020. The trend these days has moved away from fast lenses to stablized f4 lenses. This trend keeps the lenses lighter and because most cameras can now shoot easily at iso 800 lens designs have been skewing far more into that f4 range then f2.8. Mainly for weight savings for things like putting cameras on gimbals or easy to carry around and travel with. Now with that said the leica produced more colour pleasing results and required way less colour tweaking in post, but you pretty much have to nail your exposure in camera, like nail it as you have zero room at iso 800 to lift the shadows. This same problem transfers over to the video side as well, iso 800 is not usable on the SL2. I am hoping firmware can correct or at least ease some of this but Leica firmware updates are like unicorns......they don't exist

 

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[wjdrijfhout]

At 1/2500s f/4 in a dark corner of the room, these look like highly underexposed shots that have been heavily lifted in post. That does not say anything about high iso performance, at best something about post-processing latitude. Your clients would probably prefer photos that are properly exposed, a type of photography that the SL2 excels in. 
According to your posts you have sold your SL2 in May, in June you were still angry with Leica of not having released the pixel-shift function, and now that the SL2 has pixel-shift, you have bought a Canon camera that does not even have pixel-shift.

Perhaps you can do yourself and all of us a favor and sell any Leica equipment you have left, and continue your experiences with your R5 on the Canon forums? I thought I had participated in a proper comparison between SL2 and R5 with each strengths and weaknesses, which there are on both sides, but now see that that was not the intention, sorry. Looks rather troll-like.

 

[jaapv]

8 hours ago, The206 said:

but you pretty much have to nail your exposure in camera,

Errm... Hasn't it been that way since 1826?

[The206]

This is just part of the scene from the image, the image was exposed perfect for the entire scene.  The fact is plain and simple the Canon EOS R5 has better ability to lift the shadows. It has better iso performance at iso 800 and 1600. I still have the SL2, I love the camera. These are just observations not slights against the SL2, it just simply wasn't built for overly challenging scenes. The canon tethers into capture one without the need for the leica image shuttle, the canon uses lenses that are easily rentable from gear houses across the planet, the canon has superior auto focus. So for the shooting scenarios that require fast tethering and quickly moving objects, then I will use the R5. For everything else, I will still be grabbing my SL2. And we as professionals are allowed to be frustrated by slow updates, unacceptable things like battery warnings when you are at 75%. If we don't speak up, these changes won't be made. Look at the overheating issues of the R5, you gonna slag on the thousands of people that held Canon accountable? And sorry perfectly nailing exposure hasn't been a thing for quite some time, why do you suppose we have raw editing software, we would all just shoot jpeg if that were the case. But being 1 stop under or over shouldn't wreck an image on a $9000 camera with 47 megapixels, that's just poor engineering. And for the record when you list pixel shift as a feature of the camera it sure as hell better come with the camera out of the box, this wasn't the case, 9 months later isn't exactly in good faith. Again I love my SL2, no camera comes close to how it feels in the hand with maybe the exception of the x1D. When you have ideal lighting conditions it takes superb images. The button layout and menu organization is the best in the world. But in semi challenging conditions this camera falls a little short and it's not really something they can't fix in firmware. There is nothing stoping them from paying Phase One for native tethering support. Their engineers should be able to get a clean ISO 800 and it should be possible to close the live view feed in the leica shuttle app instead of having it flip vert and horizontal everytime you move the camera a little. These are all reasonable requests that would greatly benefit us as owners. 

[Michael Markey]

2 hours ago, The206 said:

 And sorry perfectly nailing exposure hasn't been a thing for quite some time, why do you suppose we have raw editing software, we would all just shoot jpeg if that were the case. 

I`ve found this to be true with my CL .

I posted a picture some weeks ago and said something to the effect that I wasn`t happy with the exposure.

As someone rightly pointed out it looked to be underexposed and it was .

I`m used to shooting a Sony in that location and clearly have gotten sloppy because of the Sony`s files greater latitude .

I`m more careful now when I use the CL and work within its limits .

Whether one should have to or not is moot , I`m just a amatuer.

[caissa]

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21 hours ago, The206 said:

This is just part of the scene from the image, the image was exposed perfect for the entire scene.  The fact is plain and simple the Canon EOS R5 has better ability to lift the shadows. It has better iso performance at iso 800 and 1600. I still have the SL2, I love the camera. These are just observations not slights against the SL2, it just simply wasn't built for overly challenging scenes. The canon tethers into capture one without the need for the leica image shuttle, the canon uses lenses that are easily rentable from gear houses across the planet, the canon has superior auto focus. So for the shooting scenarios that require fast tethering and quickly moving objects, then I will use the R5. For everything else, I will still be grabbing my SL2. And we as professionals are allowed to be frustrated by slow updates, unacceptable things like battery warnings when you are at 75%. If we don't speak up, these changes won't be made. Look at the overheating issues of the R5, you gonna slag on the thousands of people that held Canon accountable? And sorry perfectly nailing exposure hasn't been a thing for quite some time, why do you suppose we have raw editing software, we would all just shoot jpeg if that were the case. But being 1 stop under or over shouldn't wreck an image on a $9000 camera with 47 megapixels, that's just poor engineering. And for the record when you list pixel shift as a feature of the camera it sure as hell better come with the camera out of the box, this wasn't the case, 9 months later isn't exactly in good faith. Again I love my SL2, no camera comes close to how it feels in the hand with maybe the exception of the x1D. When you have ideal lighting conditions it takes superb images. The button layout and menu organization is the best in the world. But in semi challenging conditions this camera falls a little short and it's not really something they can't fix in firmware. There is nothing stoping them from paying Phase One for native tethering support. Their engineers should be able to get a clean ISO 800 and it should be possible to close the live view feed in the leica shuttle app instead of having it flip vert and horizontal everytime you move the camera a little. These are all reasonable requests that would greatly benefit us as owners. 

The Canon could be better in anything and even if it had perfect autonomous self-driving ...  I have the SL2 and am interested in getting the best out of it. And I am not at all interested in advantages of other cameras.  While you seem to have a hellish experience with the SL2. So I suggest you simply use the R5, forget about the terrible Leica equipment and lead a happy life. (And we will, too. 😎)

Edited November 2, 2020 by caissa

[thatkatmat]

 I love my SL2...Like any other body, you have to learn it's strengths and weakness'. 

Like a lot of other folks on this forum, I got sick of all the bells and whistles...Hell, I don't even shoot video, guess I'm old.

I had every Sony and Canon body up to the 5Dmk4 and a9II and just about every lens.

After a while, I could just hand my cameras to one of my young kids or wife at an event and every shot they took was perfect if framed correctly because of the face detect and amazing AF and metering on those bodies. With each iteration I would sell the old body and buy the new one with the extra 10 AF points and MP's..To me, that's not photography anymore, everything is too fast, auto everything, I get similar pics from my Iphone, they're amazing, I can't believe they're so good, I barely compose, just aim, no thought about light,>>>> but BEAUTIFUL

I get why you want the SL2 to have as many features as the R5 or a9II or whatever...

But The SL2 for me is about getting back to photography, using my M lenses adjusting every aspect of the shot, thinking about how the light will play and worrying if I have what I want, in focus, the excitement of bringing the card back to the Computer and seeing which ones achieved critical sharpness in the areas I stressed. Similar to an M body experience, with the added luxury of an EVF so I can actually see the focus plane and the fact that if I change lenses, I can use my SL AF lenses seamlessly to shoot an event. 

Cheers

[Simone_DF]

8 minutes ago, thatkatmat said:

But The SL2 for me is about getting back to photography, using my M lenses adjusting every aspect of the shot, thinking about how the light will play and worrying if I have what I want, in focus, the excitement of bringing the card back to the Computer and seeing which ones achieved critical sharpness in the areas I stressed. Similar to an M body experience, with the added luxury of an EVF so I can actually see the focus plane and the fact that if I change lenses, I can use my SL AF lenses seamlessly to shoot an event. 

And what is stopping you from using your M lenses on Sony or Canon and obtain the same experience?

[thatkatmat]

Nothing, I certainly could, I'm just enjoying the experience and the files I get from my SL2. Also, I never ventured into adapting lenses before I got my M-10 and SL. maybe I should have...but I didn't.

[The206]

There is no doubt that there is something unique about the Leica SL2 files, I have always enjoyed the way DNG files render colour. As a stills camera if I didnt have to tether into Capture One, the SL2 is the clear winner. But sadly our industry is built on being able to tether into Capture One, I have never been on a set in the last 5 years where this isn't the case. Fuji realized this and the sole reason their cameras are ending up on commercial sets is because it tethers into Capture One.

 

The SL2 is the superior camera in terms of design and ease of use out in the streets. I wish I could afford to have both but it's just not practical. I will prob sell the SL2 and get a back up R5 once the prices or used markets come into play and hopefully I can pickup a used OG SL, which is still the best 24mp camera in my opinion 

[tom0511]

I bring up this old thread, since I have recently just added a R5 to my SL gear.

Why? Even though you can shoot sports and action with the SL2, I was still not really happy with the AF for such occasions. You can do it, but it takes some luck and patience.

Besides AF itself there is also the lens selection. I love Leica way to offer f2.0 high quality relatively compact primes. However I also appreciate Canons relatively light Telecoms like 70200/2.8 RF or 100-500 RF. So far I can tell that the R5 + 70200 is indeed a better sports camera than the SL2.

I love simplicity, built quality, feel, IQ and color of Leica. But I also wish (or request?) Leica to offer a C-AF system which is up to the competition.

Simplicity is also if you don't have to worry about focus because it just works reliable. Leica SL AF in S mode is great, in C mode its just ok - IMO.

I really do like the R5 and Canon lenses for sports and action, I still hope Leica - with the next generation body - will offer a body which also offers comparable AFC performance.