Exposure Surprise

[lmans]

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For years I have shot my M3 with 50mm and have been happy with it...In terms of exposure I have been happy with my 'experience' and skill as I guess at the exposure. I never really used a light meter although played with one on my phone or had an old Watson I carried once in awhile.  Now, shooting BW I have lots of play so can be wrong which I probably am most of the time!

This has become evident as of late. I picked up a 28mm as of late and been shooting it for awhile. And since it is a 28mm, it naturally couples with my M6. The M3 is a great fit for the 50mm as the view finder is filled up with that lens in mind, while the M6 is almost meant for a 28 or 35 in my thinking being how they fill up the entire view finder lines.

Regardless.....the M6 comes with a light meter....wow....and the results are surprising. I am surprised at how often I (using my experience per se') guess wrongly according to the built in meter. And not just that, but how often that meter might fluctuate with the slightest variance of 'sun' and light!

Granted....the 50mm Summicron only has F2, 2.8, 4, 5.6, 8, 11 and 16.....while the 28mm Elmarit has the full selection up to 22. So part of the variance is using those extra stops that in the 50mm I am not used  to using.

Does anyone else find this to be true and how are you handling it? The built in light meter is fun....I enjoy it. It takes away a bit of the guess work for sure but I think it makes the photos' more in correct exposure as opposed to being 1-2 stops off....  I suppose just more practice with the 28mm and M6 as I will get used to it. I have used the 28mm many many many times with digital (Ricoh GRII) but I usually shoot street and place it on auto, so haven't learned much from that evidently. So composing the scene is not an issue as I love the 28mm for street work, but just getting used to that light meter on the M6 and attempting to guess it is where I am now in relation to the full gambit of F stops.jim

Edited October 22, 2020 by lmans

[250swb]

It's a little bit like playing a musical instrument, the longer you do it wrong and get into bad habits when it comes to doing it right it's a big shock. 

Guessing wins no prizes, if you'd used a meter all the time up until now you'd be so good at recognising accurate exposure you'd find the meter in your M6 superfluous. So start with understanding metering all over again, learn from tutorials what to point your meter at, and then understand why and when to override it. These are basic skills.

[lmans]

You are right....bad habits!.... Although realistically it is now selecting between 7.1 and 11...so not a huge curve but one...:-)

[UliWer]

The lightmetering of the M is strongly oriented  to the center of the frame - just take the frames for 90mm to get an idea where the metering happens.

Of course a wide angle lens covers much more. The edges often being in the shadows. Add lense`s vignetting - which may be strong for 28mm - and you loose two or more stops of light. A f2.8 in the center may give you only the the light of an f4.5 at the edges. 

So just metering in the center and doing nothing else will not lead to good results. A way to improve this may be to „scan“ the whole frame of your object by moving the camera in different directions and look how the lightmeter reacts. Choose a part which is in the middle between the center and the edges to meter, or even choose the edges with shadow if your film has enough headroom to avoid burned out highlights. An other method may be to take not just one shot but three, each one with different metering - though you have to decide whether the path to good lighting goes into the direction of stronger or weaker exposure.

[Charles Morgan]

The meter on the M6 is very well explained in the M6 manual. It shows the metering areas for all lens focal lengths - the longer the lens, the greater the area metered. At 28mm it is functioning almost as a spot meter so you need to choose the area you are metering for carefully. Whereas at the longest focal length it's effectively a large centre weighted average meter, but very bright light in that area will cause underexposure.

The critical thing to remember with exposure meters like this is that they give an exposure setting that would render the area you are metering 18% greyscale (Zone 5 on the zone system). So if you meter a bright area, the meter will give you a reading to convert white to grey (so underexpose the white) whereas for a dark area it will give you a reading to convert black for grey (so overexpose). If I have a spot meter I will meter the area closest to Zone V in the subject (grass, light grey concrete) and decide if that gives enough emphasis to the subject I am exposing for and adjust accordingly. 

Also on my long sold M6 the meter was underexposing as it was on the way out. It happens, check it against a similar meter with known accuracy to check. 

The difference between contemporary meters with numerous weightings and immense processing power to old spot meters is a lot like the difference between driving old cars with minimal systems and modern system controlled cars - you need to understand the physics and the characteristics of what you are driving, the joy of getting it right is wonderful. If on the other hand you hate the results of getting it wrong, an AC Cobra without anti-lock brakes and traction control is probably the wrong car for you!

 

 

[pippy]

17 hours ago, lmans said:

...And not just that, but how often that meter might fluctuate with the slightest variance of 'sun' and light!...Does anyone else find this to be true and how are you handling it?...

The advice Charles gives (above) is spot-on. Understanding how the meter 'sees' a scene is fundamentally important when shooting film. There is a bit of latitude with B'n'W and more latitude with colour neg but transparencies really do call for complete accuracy.

A built-in meter is a very useful guide but one does need to be aware of any very bright lights which may fool the system so using one's brain is essential.

Philip.

[a.noctilux]

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Jim,

which 28mm do you use ?

I ask this as first Elmarit 28mm version ( this one , link to Wiki ) has rear lens element 'far' inside "fooling" M6's meter cell.

 

 

 

[lmans]

2 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Jim,

which 28mm do you use ?

I ask this as first Elmarit 28mm version ( this one , link to Wiki ) has rear lens element 'far' inside "fooling" M6's meter cell.

I have the 'second' Elmarit 28mm.....

This is a great learning conversation with the light meter for the M6. Lots to chew on and practice with......Thanks to all! jim

 

 

[lmans]

It really is a fascinating camera + meter and yes, as Pippy stated 'so using one's brain is essential."....    I am finding that I just need to play with it more and establish control over what I am wanting to highlight and what not to. I can see from the M6 Manual the area for light metering depending on the lens. But obviously it depends on the scene. 

As I am not going to use this as much for rapid street photography, this will allow me more time to properly meter as I plan on setting up shots more, and then waiting for the shot. But thanks....really good stuff. I should have downloaded the English manual earlier as the one I have with the camera is in German and I don't speak German.  Thanks all 🙂 jim

[a.noctilux]

Concerning M6 and it's meter, I had over time many "views" which changed as my practice changed.

In my early photographic journey, after M4 and co., came M5 nice meter 'replaced' when available by M6 ( from year 1985 ) which I used for decades, relying or NOT

on the precise meter for thousands of Kodachrome slides.

When I took M5 from time to time, I prefer it's not-too-intrusive metering to the red bright LED of the M6.

Long story short, for b&w film I prefer non-metered M ( even took out the M6's battery ! ).

Then came MP, nice but even M-A nicer to end ( for now ! ) the journey.

 

Just to say each Leica M is a nice companion to take pictures with some prefered lens(es).

[Narsuitus]

I shoot an M6 with 21, 35, and 90mm lenses. I also use medium and large format cameras that do not have built-in light meters. With all my cameras, I prefer to use a handheld light meter for correct exposure.

[RayD28]

22 hours ago, Narsuitus said:

I shoot an M6 with 21, 35, and 90mm lenses. I also use medium and large format cameras that do not have built-in light meters. With all my cameras, I prefer to use a handheld light meter for correct exposure.

Reflective or incident?

[Narsuitus]

1 hour ago, RayD28 said:

Reflective or incident?

My Gossen Luna-Pro and Gossen Super Pilot perform reflective and incident.

I tend to use reflective more for general subjects.

I tend to use incident more for still life, macro, and portraits.

I also have a spot meter attachment for the Luna-Pro but I rarely use it.

Neither, however, perform electronic flash light metering.