jagstang Posted October 7, 2020 Share #1 Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everyone, I recently acquired a used Summilux 35mm ASPH (pre-FLE) from the 2000s. Externally, you could not tell it apart from a new one out of the box - even the lens mount is absolutely mint. But I realised that when looking at it from a certain angle you can see lots of faint swirly scratches in the inner elements (they seem to be closer to the rear element, behind the shutter blades). I checked the screws on the side and the slots on the front of the lens and they show no signs of ever having been touched by a screwdriver or spanner, and seeing how mint the lens is overall I doubt it's ever been opened up for a service. It's uncoded as well, so there would have been no reason for adjustment on that end either. I know the scratches will probably have no effect on the photos. I don't really mind dust and particles inside lenses, and I don't pay much attention to all the debris you see when shining a torch through a lens, but this is visible just under a regular halogen ceiling light above me (albeit at an angle only - and it's very hard to see under natural sunlight). Given that this is a very expensive lens that cost $4k from a dealer, I'm wondering if this is normal? Are they polishing marks from the Leica factory? I only found one thread here where a member reports having seen similar scratches on several brand new Leica lenses out of the box: I know some of you will tell me to forget about it and use the lens, but one of the reasons why I can justify paying this amount of money for a lens is knowing that I can get my money back if I ever decide to sell it. I'd have to disclose this info and it would probably lower its price quite a bit, I imagine. I could also return it to the dealer, but I'd been looking for a Summilux 35mm ASPH in good condition for over a year before I found this one... FWIW, I have three other modern Leica lenses and none of them have similar marks inside, but I'm curious to see what you all think. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited October 7, 2020 by jagstang 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314004-scratches-in-inner-lens-elements/?do=findComment&comment=4058772'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 7, 2020 Posted October 7, 2020 Hi jagstang, Take a look here Scratches in inner lens elements. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaeger Posted October 7, 2020 Share #2 Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) Mine doesn't have this and I double the quality control is this bad... Does the screws in the back has sign of opened? It looks like someone use a q-tip to clean the inside element from the back. Edited October 7, 2020 by jaeger 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 7, 2020 Share #3 Posted October 7, 2020 It takes a lot to damage a modern coating so maybe a Q-tip laced with grit. But sometimes scratches on the outside can look like they are on the inside, lick your finger and rub it over the scratched area just to see if they temporarily disappear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted October 7, 2020 Share #4 Posted October 7, 2020 Not a 4K$ condition for sure. Someone scratched it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spydrxx Posted October 7, 2020 Share #5 Posted October 7, 2020 Actually the scratches are behind the diaphram blades, the shutter is in the camera body. I suggest doing a trial run with the lens...if you like the results, keep it, if not return or sell it (fully disclosing the defects). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagstang Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share #6 Posted October 7, 2020 7 hours ago, jaeger said: Mine doesn't have this and I double the quality control is this bad... Does the screws in the back has sign of opened? It looks like someone use a q-tip to clean the inside element from the back. No apparent signs of being opened from the mount, but I don't discard the possibility... 6 hours ago, 250swb said: It takes a lot to damage a modern coating so maybe a Q-tip laced with grit. But sometimes scratches on the outside can look like they are on the inside, lick your finger and rub it over the scratched area just to see if they temporarily disappear. Thanks, I will try it, but it's definitely scratches inside - the front and rear elements are crystal clear even when shined with a LED torch. 3 hours ago, spydrxx said: Actually the scratches are behind the diaphram blades, the shutter is in the camera body. I suggest doing a trial run with the lens...if you like the results, keep it, if not return or sell it (fully disclosing the defects). Oops, you're right. I was thinking of the structure of a Rolleiflex lens! I will try it with film tomorrow and I'm sure they will have no effect on the photos, but then again, I can't help but feel like it should be cleaner for the price unless this was common in Leica lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 7, 2020 Share #7 Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 12 hours ago, jagstang said: ...I'm wondering if this is normal?...I only found one thread here where a member reports having seen similar scratches... I think the second part of your quoted section answers the first quite clearly. It's impossible (obviously) for us to say with any degree of certainty what has happened here. The lens is pre-owned / used and might well be over 10 years old during which time any previous owner might have had reason to send it for a CLA. Anyone who has any understanding about how to use tools properly would be able to unscrew / disassemble a lens without leaving any trace whatsoever that that the lens has been tampered with. It would seem incongrous to then mess-up the CLA as far as the elements are concerned but it has been known... It is what it is. If you don't like it send it back. If you can live with it then keep it. Not much more to be said. If the images it produces are 100% fine then all the best and shoot to your heart's content! Philip. Edited October 7, 2020 by pippy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagstang Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share #8 Posted October 10, 2020 On 10/8/2020 at 12:26 AM, pippy said: I think the second part of your quoted section answers the first quite clearly. It's impossible (obviously) for us to say with any degree of certainty what has happened here. The lens is pre-owned / used and might well be over 10 years old during which time any previous owner might have had reason to send it for a CLA. Anyone who has any understanding about how to use tools properly would be able to unscrew / disassemble a lens without leaving any trace whatsoever that that the lens has been tampered with. It would seem incongrous to then mess-up the CLA as far as the elements are concerned but it has been known... It is what it is. If you don't like it send it back. If you can live with it then keep it. Not much more to be said. If the images it produces are 100% fine then all the best and shoot to your heart's content! Philip. I guess this is the truth I didn't want to hear! However, I do have an update. I got my lens seen by a reputable technician and he said the scratches are really faint and I shouldn't worry about them. He also added that he's seen such marks in new Leica lenses before (as described in the thread by johncoltrane I linked). Whether this is true or a white lie to ease my OCD, I don't know. But like you say, Philip, it is what it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 10, 2020 Share #9 Posted October 10, 2020 7 hours ago, jagstang said: ...I do have an update. I got my lens seen by a reputable technician and he said the scratches are really faint and I shouldn't worry about them... Well that's very good news, jagstang, and I'm sure we are all delighted to hear it. Happy Snapping! P. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marac Posted October 10, 2020 Share #10 Posted October 10, 2020 Looks to me like a very bad CLA, I'd return it right away. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelmer Posted October 10, 2020 Share #11 Posted October 10, 2020 Whatever they say, this is not normal. Given the price, I'd return it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted October 10, 2020 Share #12 Posted October 10, 2020 Looks like a bad CLA to me too. Sometimes that sort of thing isn't really a scratch, but just a swirl pattern from the final cleaning with the KimWipes or whatever was used. Not visible initially, but after a time they show up due to dust or condensation accumulating and accentuating the swirl pattern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a5m Posted October 12, 2020 Share #13 Posted October 12, 2020 On 10/10/2020 at 7:02 AM, Marac said: Looks to me like a very bad CLA, I'd return it right away. +1 Poor CLA resulting in cleaning marks, or in this case, scratches because they’re very apparent. I’d return it for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagstang Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) Well, upon closer inspection I found some marks that might as well be evidence of a bad CLA: scratches and/or dents in the inner "rings", probably made when taking the lens apart. These are also seemingly outside the same lens element that has the cleaning marks. I'll be returning this lens - god knows what else might have been botched in the process. Thanks for the replies everyone! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited October 16, 2020 by jagstang Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314004-scratches-in-inner-lens-elements/?do=findComment&comment=4063588'>More sharing options...
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