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Q2 competitor (I think not)

colint544
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colint544

colint544

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I remember Zeiss announcing the ZX1 camera a couple of years ago. It seemed novel, interesting, and a definite competitor to the Leica Q. 

Things have moved on since then, and now there is the Leica Q2. Zeiss are finally taking orders for their ZX1. I think they've missed the boat, big time.

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Leica28

Leica28

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From the specs I can see it is definitely not in the same class as a Q2.  Many differences abound - important ones.  I think it is simply Zeiss's entry into the fixed lens market.   Not sure what the intended market is since it is priced a thousand dollars higher than a Q2.   I could be wrong but I doubt any serious Leica users will jump ship over this offering.   I will probably rent one at a future date when it becomes available - so I can play with it.  There is no possible way I would drop $6,000 on one to keep permanently.  Not even $5000.   I am a photo artist who prefers the 28mm focal length to 35mm.   I am sure it will appeal to some but to who I can't predict.   

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dkmoore

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It’s also Android only I believe which I think eliminates a huge population. Please correct me if I misunderstood. 
 

I agree this is coming to market way late and will likely be a Sony RX1 camera in a Zeiss body so why not just buy a RX1R for way less. 

Edited by dkmoore
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nuc001

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7 hours ago, dkmoore said:

It’s also Android only I believe which I think eliminates a huge population. Please correct me if I misunderstood. 
 

I agree this is coming to market way late and will likely be a Sony RX1 camera in a Zeiss body so why not just buy a RX1R for way less. 

I thought the camera has an Android operating system, but will connect to both Android/iOS devices regardless...similar to Sony's Android TVs. Will wait until the reviews come out. Would be interesting to see at least. 

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verwackelt

verwackelt

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But even if it comes down to 4000€ there will be very few that spend that amount of money for a fixed lens and fixed battery camera.

Q2 is a big competitior…
To be honest, i expected a price around 2000€ to be competitive. I was shocked as i saw that 6000$ price.

Edited by verwackelt
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hdmesa

hdmesa

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I have to wonder if B&H jumped the gun and listed the price in the wrong currency. If it is $6K, then this better be Otus level IQ, quality control, and consistency – and without the heavy distortion correction needed for the Q/Q2.

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sfphoto

sfphoto

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On 10/8/2020 at 5:24 PM, Einst_Stein said:

The good thing about ZX1 in my personal preference is its 35mm lens, 28mm is simply too wide to carry alone for me.

And that's probably the only advantage (though may be decisive) over Q2. 

Oh, did you know that the Q2 has a 35mm built in? The Leica Q2 is 35mm/2.1 at 30.2 MPx (when cropped) and the ZX1 is 35mm/2 at 37.4MPx. Not much of a difference.

I would rather have a Q2 with the option of using the native 28mm/1.7 if I need a wider angle...

Just my two cents.

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Einst_Stein

Einst_Stein

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5 minutes ago, sfphoto said:

Oh, did you know that the Q2 has a 35mm built in? The Leica Q2 is 35mm/2.1 at 30.2 MPx (when cropped) and the ZX1 is 35mm/2 at 37.4MPx. Not much of a difference.

I would rather have a Q2 with the option of using the native 28mm/1.7 if I need a wider angle...

Just my two cents.

Yes, a digital cropped 35mm! What it means is personal. But if you look and compare the scaled MTF (assuming you are not anti scientifics) with a zoom, tell me what you think! 

Edited by Einst_Stein
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nameBrandon

nameBrandon

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There's no competition. It's a shame, I was really looking forward to playing with this one, but this pricing is insanity. 

$6,000 USD

It's larger than an A7R4 with a small 35mm attached. Slower lens than the 28 Summilux (35mm f/2) and a lower resolution sensor (37MP) than the Q2. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1436638-REG/zeiss_zx1_digital_camera.html

 

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Simone_DF

Simone_DF

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While I agree the Q2 is the better overall camera for many reasons ie size, 30mp when cropped to 35mm etc, I think you also get some advantages with the extra 1000$ you spend on the Zeiss like a USB-C port, integrated 512 SSD, which is WAY FASTER than any SD card, automatic backup to a NAS or cloud system, a Sigma compatible flash hotshoe that will save you from the 500€ Leica ripoffs, a bigger and higher resolution screen, one year worth of Adobe (approx. 150$?), an extra battery, Phase Detect AF and I think the straps included in the box are compatible with the Peak design system, or at least it looks like that.

While I think they should have priced it at least 1000$ less to be competitive with the Q2, I wouldn't dismiss it so easily because it offers many things that Leica can't provide. 

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nameBrandon

nameBrandon

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5 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

While I agree the Q2 is the better overall camera for many reasons ie size, 30mp when cropped to 35mm etc, I think you also get some advantages with the extra 1000$ you spend on the Zeiss like a USB-C port, integrated 512 SSD, which is WAY FASTER than any SD card, automatic backup to a NAS or cloud system, a Sigma compatible flash hotshoe that will save you from the 500€ Leica ripoffs, a bigger and higher resolution screen, one year worth of Adobe (approx. 150$?), an extra battery, Phase Detect AF and I think the straps included in the box are compatible with the Peak design system, or at least it looks like that.

While I think they should have priced it at least 1000$ less to be competitive with the Q2, I wouldn't dismiss it so easily because it offers many things that Leica can't provide. 

You definitely highlighted some differences, but all of that is worth very little to me, personally. I'm sure there are others who may appreciate what the ZX1 offers, but I don't see much value in the camera.

  • USB-C - I don't connect my Q2 to my computer
  • 512 SSD - I've never run into buffering issues with my Q2, and SD card copy to my computer is fine, even with hundreds of images. The SSD is big and fast, but when it goes bad, so does your camera.
  • Automatic backup to NAS / Cloud - This only works in WiFi range, and once I copy my files to my computer they're backed up nightly. Automatic cloud storage would be nice, but is Zeiss offering this for free or something? If so, there has to be a limit and additional charge there at some point. If it's just using other services that's fine, but my computer works just as well to sync files to the cloud.
  • Sigma compatible flash - I've never used a flash on my Q2, and if I needed to use one I'd just use a manual flash. That being said if you frequently use TTL flashes with your Q2, you have a point here.
  • Bigger / Higher resolution screen - Yep, that would be nice to have.
  • Adobe Lightroom 1 Year - I think it's ~$120 but I pay for this already, and after year 1 you'll need to as well. The interesting aspect will be what happens to this camera if you decide to not pay for Adobe Lightroom. This very well may turn into an obligation moving forward.
  • Phase Detect AF - This would be nice, but I've never had any issues with the AF on the Q2, I think it's actually very good. It is probably better than my Sony A7R2. 
  • Peak Design Compatible Straps - This is personal, I don't use peak design stuff but I can see the appeal for those that do. That being said, the value here has to be <$50.
  • Extra battery - hard to argue with a free battery

 

So there are definitely so positives that I think apply to most people, like the extra battery, larger screen and phase detect AF.

 That being said, let's not forget what you lose..

  • Macro mode
  • f/1.7 lens
  • Larger sensor
  • Faster shutter speeds (mechanical and electronic.. ZX1 fastest shutter speed is 1/1000 with leaf, 1/2000 with electronic.. Q2 is 1/2000, 1/40,000 respectively)
  • Long exposure (limited to 30s on ZX1, 120 seconds on Q2)
  • Q2 is decently smaller and ~100g lighter
  • Removable storage

 

To me, and I imagine for a number of people, when you look at a ZX1 vs Q2, you're losing far more useful functionality if you choose the ZX1. Macro mode alone for me would be a big deal breaker.

Now that all being said, I was highly skeptical of the Q/Q2 myself and thought it was a glorified point and shoot until I actually used it and experienced it. Perhaps that's the case with the ZX1 and this is one of those cameras you just need to use yourself to really understand. Maybe one day I'll get to try one out and I'll happily come back here and admit to being wrong if for some reason it truly is as fantastic as some people seem to think it is.

Until then though, I'll hang on to my Q2 (and Q2M.. whenever it gets released..).

 

 

Edited by nameBrandon
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Leica Guy

Leica Guy

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14 minutes ago, nameBrandon said:

You definitely highlighted some differences, but all of that is worth very little to me, personally. I'm sure there are others who may appreciate what the ZX1 offers, but I don't see much value in the camera.

  • USB-C - I don't connect my Q2 to my computer
  • 512 SSD - I've never run into buffering issues with my Q2, and SD card copy to my computer is fine, even with hundreds of images. The SSD is big and fast, but when it goes bad, so does your camera.
  • Automatic backup to NAS / Cloud - This only works in WiFi range, and once I copy my files to my computer they're backed up nightly. Automatic cloud storage would be nice, but is Zeiss offering this for free or something? If so, there has to be a limit and additional charge there at some point. If it's just using other services that's fine, but my computer works just as well to sync files to the cloud.
  • Sigma compatible flash - I've never used a flash on my Q2, and if I needed to use one I'd just use a manual flash. That being said if you frequently use TTL flashes with your Q2, you have a point here.
  • Bigger / Higher resolution screen - Yep, that would be nice to have.
  • Adobe Lightroom 1 Year - I think it's ~$120 but I pay for this already, and after year 1 you'll need to as well. The interesting aspect will be what happens to this camera if you decide to not pay for Adobe Lightroom. This very well may turn into an obligation moving forward.
  • Phase Detect AF - This would be nice, but I've never had any issues with the AF on the Q2, I think it's actually very good. It is probably better than my Sony A7R2. 
  • Peak Design Compatible Straps - This is personal, I don't use peak design stuff but I can see the appeal for those that do. That being said, the value here has to be <$50.
  • Extra battery - hard to argue with a free battery

 

So there are definitely so positives that I think apply to most people, like the extra battery, larger screen and phase detect AF.

 That being said, let's not forget what you lose..

  • Macro mode
  • f/1.7 lens
  • Larger sensor
  • Faster shutter speeds (mechanical and electronic.. ZX1 fastest shutter speed is 1/1000 with leaf, 1/2000 with electronic.. Q2 is 1/2000, 1/40,000 respectively)
  • Long exposure (limited to 30s on ZX1, 120 seconds on Q2)
  • Q2 is decently smaller and ~100g lighter
  • Removable storage

 

To me, and I imagine for a number of people, when you look at a ZX1 vs Q2, you're losing far more useful functionality if you choose the ZX1. Macro mode alone for me would be a big deal breaker.

Now that all being said, I was highly skeptical of the Q/Q2 myself and thought it was a glorified point and shoot until I actually used it and experienced it. Perhaps that's the case with the ZX1 and this is one of those cameras you just need to use yourself to really understand. Maybe one day I'll get to try one out and I'll happily come back here and admit to being wrong if for some reason it truly is as fantastic as some people seem to think it is.

Until then though, I'll hang on to my Q2 (and Q2M.. whenever it gets released..).

 

 

I’ll add to your list. 
Q / Q2 flash sync to 1/2000. I enjoy that when photographing hummingbirds. 

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Simone_DF

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4 hours ago, nameBrandon said:

You definitely highlighted some differences, but all of that is worth very little to me, personally. I'm sure there are others who may appreciate what the ZX1 offers, but I don't see much value in the camera.

  • USB-C - I don't connect my Q2 to my computer
  • 512 SSD - I've never run into buffering issues with my Q2, and SD card copy to my computer is fine, even with hundreds of images. The SSD is big and fast, but when it goes bad, so does your camera.
  • Automatic backup to NAS / Cloud - This only works in WiFi range, and once I copy my files to my computer they're backed up nightly. Automatic cloud storage would be nice, but is Zeiss offering this for free or something? If so, there has to be a limit and additional charge there at some point. If it's just using other services that's fine, but my computer works just as well to sync files to the cloud.
  • Sigma compatible flash - I've never used a flash on my Q2, and if I needed to use one I'd just use a manual flash. That being said if you frequently use TTL flashes with your Q2, you have a point here.
  • Bigger / Higher resolution screen - Yep, that would be nice to have.
  • Adobe Lightroom 1 Year - I think it's ~$120 but I pay for this already, and after year 1 you'll need to as well. The interesting aspect will be what happens to this camera if you decide to not pay for Adobe Lightroom. This very well may turn into an obligation moving forward.
  • Phase Detect AF - This would be nice, but I've never had any issues with the AF on the Q2, I think it's actually very good. It is probably better than my Sony A7R2. 
  • Peak Design Compatible Straps - This is personal, I don't use peak design stuff but I can see the appeal for those that do. That being said, the value here has to be <$50.
  • Extra battery - hard to argue with a free battery

 

So there are definitely so positives that I think apply to most people, like the extra battery, larger screen and phase detect AF.

 That being said, let's not forget what you lose..

  • Macro mode
  • f/1.7 lens
  • Larger sensor
  • Faster shutter speeds (mechanical and electronic.. ZX1 fastest shutter speed is 1/1000 with leaf, 1/2000 with electronic.. Q2 is 1/2000, 1/40,000 respectively)
  • Long exposure (limited to 30s on ZX1, 120 seconds on Q2)
  • Q2 is decently smaller and ~100g lighter
  • Removable storage

 

To me, and I imagine for a number of people, when you look at a ZX1 vs Q2, you're losing far more useful functionality if you choose the ZX1. Macro mode alone for me would be a big deal breaker.

Now that all being said, I was highly skeptical of the Q/Q2 myself and thought it was a glorified point and shoot until I actually used it and experienced it. Perhaps that's the case with the ZX1 and this is one of those cameras you just need to use yourself to really understand. Maybe one day I'll get to try one out and I'll happily come back here and admit to being wrong if for some reason it truly is as fantastic as some people seem to think it is.

Until then though, I'll hang on to my Q2 (and Q2M.. whenever it gets released..).

 

 

USB-C: you may not need it, but many people do. It's not just to connect to a laptop, you can also use it to recharge the camera using a power bank and to use a trigger cable

SSD: So far (finger crossed) I never had a issue with a SSD. I had, however, dust in the viewfinder on my Q2 and I had to send it to Leica. I guess if your SSD goes bust you have to send it to Zeiss to replace it

Auto backup: I'm not sure how this work, we will probably have to check. I see you can upload for example directly from the camera to Dropbox, I suppose other services or custom built NAS are supported. 

Adobe: if you pay for it, you can just add the 12 months and you won't pay for those months. What I read somewhere else is that if you don't want to use Adobe that's ok but you lose the ability to edit and share in Lightroom. 

AF: I highly doubt the Q2 is better than the Sony A7rII. I have both (upgraded the A7rII to A7rIV) and there's no comparison. The Q2 is good if you set it to S-AF and field/spot and move it around, terrible in every other mode. There's even a thread here about face detect that doesn't work.

I currently own a Q2 and I wouldn't buy a ZX1 because of a variety of reasons, but I can see the appeal of this camera and I wouldn't dismiss it so easily like some of the people above :-) 

 

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