Imports into Lightroom

[Jon Warwick]

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I've used Photoshop Elements for years now, using ACR within it to process my DNGs. 

This has worked well enough, but i've decided i need to have a go with Lightroom.

This is partly because i'm curious about Lightroom to see what difference it might make, and also because even the latest Photoshop Elements '20 is only compatible through to version 12.0 of the camera raw plug-ins (but my SL2 needs at least the more recent version of 12.1 onwards ...so, possibly, i'm not getting the most out of my DNGs at present using Elements).

apologies in advance for the simple sounding questions but here goes ....

I use an iMac and currently import my photos from the camera's SD card --> into Apple's "Photos" app as a general photo album --> then export some select DNGs into Elements when i want to work on the individual images --> and then save the output of these processed DNGs as TIFFs in a separate folder for printing.

Would Lightroom allow me to continue with this process as a substitute for Elements?  .....my confusion comes from my reading that I need to "import" the files for viewing into Lightroom before editing? ....and that made it sound like Lightroom is doubling up the storing of these files on my hard-drive into a new location?..... or do the files remain uniquely stored in their original location, ie, that location being under the "Photos" app part of my hard-drive, such that Lightroom is simply "pointing" towards where they're stored?  If i then edit in Lightroom, does the original DNG on the hard-drive under the "Photos" app folder stay untouched as an original?

Sorry for the basic questions, but any clarity or advice appreciated.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Jon Warwick

[M11 for me]

Most people in my sourounding do NOT understand Lightroom, which is a powerful tool. I say that as a photographer who came from Aperture that Appe gave up. I love Lightroom after I was in big troubble after leaving Aperture into nothing.

There are though a few prerequisites to go for LR (LR Classic I presume). If you have no order in your 1000 of photographs and if you pretend that you always find a photograph that you are looking for, then you are wrong with LR. Snd if you shoot mostly JPGs and do not like to make post processing, then stay with Photos (Apple programme as successir of Aperture).

Aperture is a Photo Mangement Systen and a Photo processing system at the same time. Today I could not be with one and without the other. 

And you are right that when you want to process photographs you have first to import them. Normally you never export any Photograph any more only in special situations: You mant to make a print. And here starts the first misunderstanding: Most people that I know import raws or Jpegs, process them quickly and then export them again as Jpgs. So stick with Photos. 

But if you want to organise your photos library as a long term library and when you have a webpage as smugmug (as an example that works as a lightroom plugin) then you will love Lightroom. Forget your Finder. You shouls do everything out of Lightroom: Each creation of o new folder, renaming folders, creating new folders or moving photographs from one foldrr to another.

You say that you have an SL2. How can you have a top hardware and nit use top Software? These 2 things should go together. No camera creates DNGs or JPGs that are perfect out of the camera. I work a lot with my images. And as you know whatever you publish you do not like any mire after a few days. Then you have to rework. I have Smugmug. Zhis is gully integrated into LR. 

But I agree: When I tell friends about how I work then I get some queer remarks. I like to be organsized. I am an engineer type. Could not be without lightroom or equivalent.

Edited October 3, 2020 by M10 for me

[pedaes]

There are some great Adobe video's on both importing and your Library structure, which you really need to plan first.

You can (I do) import straight from card. Use "Copy" (if you shot in RAW) as Leica files are already in DNG format. Also think of "Keywords" to attach to images as can help finding them later.

I would definetly spend a couple of hours watching the Adobe 'How to' videos - and then work by the book. https://www.jkost.com/lightroom.html

 

Good luck! LR is a great product.

Edited October 3, 2020 by pedaes

[wda]

Lightroom does not store photos. Before it can process your files, it needs to know where they are. That is where 'importing' comes into play. It catalogues those files you wish it to know about and makes it easier for you to find specific files in later years.

[zeitz]

Before settling on Lightroom, as a Photoshop Elements user, you may want to just use Bridge/ACR/Photoshop.  Use Applications/Image Capture instead of Photos to put your files into a folder where YOU want them.  Then go to that folder in Bridge and open the photo you want to process.  You can skip Import/Export.

[LocalHero1953]

Lightroom does not duplicate images when it imports them on your laptop/desktop drive, unless you instruct it to Copy them. You have the choice to Add (keeping them in place), Move or Copy them. I usually Copy them from an SD card, or Add them from my local disk drive. Then, within Lightroom, I move them into the folder where I want them to stay long term. 

Lightroom's Import process is principally about adding their names and locations to its catalog database. Lightroom is agnostic about where photos are actually located, as long as it knows where they are. Conversely, once you have imported them to Lightroom, do not move them using an app outside Lightroom (e.g. Finder or Photos) - Lightroom will lose track of them, and you will waste time sorting it out.

If you edit a DNG in Lightroom, you have the choice of where your edits are stored: either with the DNG file as a sidecar file, or in the Lightroom catalog database. I usually leave the edits with the original DNG. I am not a Mac user, so I don't know how Photos works - I suspect that if you imported an edited DNG into Photos, you would only get the unedited version. If you edited it and saved it again, that would confuse Lightroom. Photoshop can read DNGs edited in Lightroom, but you're best advised to do this from within Lightroom, which allows you to specify external editors (I use Photoshop, Nik Effects, Topaz in this way).  

 

[pedaes]

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21 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Then, within Lightroom, I move them into the folder where I want them to stay long term. 

Copy from card, Add if already on HD, only move within LR so, as David says, LR knows where they are. We are all saying the same thing in different words. 

Jon, it would be easy to get confused with everyones well meaning and helpful advice, so it is imperative that you understand how and where you store your pictures on your HD, how LR finds your pictures through the Library module, and keeps all adjustments you make in a separate Catalogue, and then puts the two together when you call up the image.

I can't stress enough how important it is to get your head round this, ultimately simple, structure. Adobe videos will help.

[Jeff S]

Scott Kelby has some good basic primers on LR (ignore the bad jokes). Read FIRST THINGS FIRST, however, as he warns from the very start about organizing one’s photos to make things simple and avoid needless issues and confusion later.  He lays out a basic roadmap. Once the basic structure is understood and created, then one can access a variety of tutorials, written or video, by either Kelby or various other folks.  Julieanne Kost’s free Adobe videos mentioned earlier are one such source.

Jeff

Edited October 3, 2020 by Jeff S

[pedaes]

43 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Scott Kelby

I agree, and have found Scott Kelby's LR book invaluable. As you are in the UK you might also want to check out https://www.lightroomqueen.com/

[Jeff S]

20 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I agree, and have found Scott Kelby's LR book invaluable. As you are in the UK you might also want to check out https://www.lightroomqueen.com/

I’m not in the U.K. (US), but I’ve followed Victoria’s books and blog for years. Other useful resources include Martin Evening, Jeff Schewe, Katrin Eismann/Sean Duggan and more.  Michael Reichmann (RIP) also has some video tutorials (with Schewe) in the LuLa archives that are long but useful.

Jeff

Edited October 3, 2020 by Jeff S

[pedaes]

13 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I’m not in the U.K.

I didn't make it clear I was referring to OP.

There should be a new Jeff Schewe video on the PhotoPXL site soon https://photopxl.com/raw-edits-with-jeff-schewe-using-lightroom/

Unfortunately I think you now have to subscribe to LuLa to access old videos (or you did the last time I tried).

[Jeff S]

Yes, LuLa is 12 bucks a year. The old stuff is the only worthwhile stuff IMO.  And, yes, Kevin Raber (formerly LuLa) has kept Schewe around as a contributor on his new Photo PXL site.  The LR video sessions will be posted after the live, limited participant, events. 
 

Jeff

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, zeitz said:

Before settling on Lightroom, as a Photoshop Elements user, you may want to just use Bridge/ACR/Photoshop.  Use Applications/Image Capture instead of Photos to put your files into a folder where YOU want them.  Then go to that folder in Bridge and open the photo you want to process.  You can skip Import/Export.

Exactly - Once one understands the basics of Photoshop it is a far more flexible tool than Lightroom.

[Jon Warwick]

As the OP, many thanks to all for your kind help. I will re-read it all several times and look into the various links you’ve posted. 

To Jaap’s point, what is the reason people often seem to choose Lightroom over Photoshop for raw processing?

As an Elements user, it has, in the past, done most of what I’d want it to ....but the latest version of the ACR plug-in isn’t sufficiently up-to-date for the SL2’s minimum requirement, and it seems I need to either use Lightroom or Photoshop (non Elements version) to ensure latest compatibility ....Elements itself seems to have less frequent updates of its ACR plug-in.

Were it sufficiently up-to-date with the latest version, I assume ACR across all products whether it be Photoshop / Elements / Lightroom would be identical in terms of its profiling for the SL2? 

[jaapv]

Because there is less of a learning curve involved. Basically Lightroom is a simplified version  of Photoshop (or rather ACR) with a different user interface. For that reason it has always been possible to switch to Photoshop for more advanced editing.

One other reason is that Lightroom incorporates Bridge, which quite practical as  it makes for a continuous workflow.

[Jeff S]

Choosing software is like choosing camera brands; people have individual preferences.  I find that people tend to like whichever editing software that they take the time to learn, provided the interface isn’t totally offensive to start.  
 

FWIW, the Adobe photographic subscription package includes both LR and Photoshop for 10 bucks/mo.  LR Classic is the closest follow up to former perpetual license version.  
 

Many also have preferences for plug-ins and such.  I’m a fan of ImagePrint to supplement LR for print needs.

Jeff

Edited October 3, 2020 by Jeff S

[LocalHero1953]

I started with Lightroom, and found it intuitive because it used terminology I was familiar with from the darkroom (exposure, highlights, shadows etc) and I found I could do most editing there. Eventually I learned enough of Photoshop to recognise its merits, and I now use it for tasks where LR is not precise or analytical enough. 

Jaap may be right when he says LR incorporates Bridge or is an advanced version of ACR, but I find that unhelpful. It may incorporate their functionality, but to my mind LR does all that they do plus a lot of the selective and local editing of PS as well, and a useful Print function, in a practical integrated package. 

If you want a single package to manage your photo catalogue, convert your raws, edit them non-destructively and provide all your normal, traditional darkroom tools, then LR does it. If you want, as I often do, to use the advanced masking and layering tools in PS, then you can jump to PS from within LR or use it independently. But PS is overkill for what I need most of the time, just as Bridge and ACR are too narrow in their spheres of activity. 

These are all personal choices though - there's no right and wrong, or an obviously best approach. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by LocalHero1953

[Jon Warwick]

So, as the OP, I’ve now downloaded both Lightroom and Photoshop. There was an Adobe trial that came with the SL2, which allows me to try them all out.

The interface for DNG processing seems remarkably similar between both LR and Photoshop; certainly I can already tell that both are a major upgrade from my PS Elements in terms of me being able to accurately and delicately get an image to where I want it to be.

Probably more than anything, I can now see the SL2’s files with the compatible Adobe profile - this alone has made a large difference to image quality so far (colour accuracy, etc).

My initial feel is that Photoshop feels reassuringly very familiar to what I’m used to with PS Elements, perhaps more so than Lightroom. So the former could well be my preference. Now that I’ve seen their DNG processing in action with the compatible profiles for the SL2, I fully expect the monthly photographic subscription (LR + PS combo) is inevitably on my radar.

Finally, as a long term film user (35mm, 120 and 5x4), the Grain tool also looks very credible and customisable - I’ve already closely studied what I can do with it to get a rendering reminiscent of my drum-scanned films - and expect it will often come in handy for me.

Anyhow - thanks again all for your help above. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Jon Warwick

[Jeff S]

On 10/3/2020 at 3:23 PM, Jeff S said:

The LR video sessions will be posted after the live, limited participant, events. 
 

 

The first video, using Schewe’s own pics to demonstrate LR edits, has been posted on PhotoPXL.

Jeff

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[zeitz]

"The interface for DNG processing seems remarkably similar between both LR and Photoshop."  They are remarkably similar because the Lightroom Develop Module and Adobe Camera Raw are the same software.  Why there is any difference to the interface is one of the great mysteries that only Adobe could explain.  With every release the differences become less and less.

Be aware that it is easy to make custom profiles for your own camera using tools such as X-Rite's Passport or Color Checker.  I nearly always use my own custom profiles rather than the Adobe profiles or the manufacturers' profiles.

Have you compared the Lightroom Library module and Bridge as Jaap suggested?