Opinions on the 28 Summicron vs Summilux

[jrp]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

If your interest is more than academic, just subscribe to the Sean Reid site and look at all sorts of comparisons of these lenses on different cameras, etc. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[james.liam]

On 9/9/2020 at 11:53 PM, chasdfg said:

30 minutes ago, jrp said:

If your interest is more than academic, just subscribe to the Sean Reid site and look at all sorts of comparisons of these lenses on different cameras, etc. 

It is and I have. His predilection is toward the smallest M lenses. 

[jrp]

But you can make up your own mind based on his image samples. 

[james.liam]

58 minutes ago, jrp said:

But you can make up your own mind based on his image samples. 

Would be a good idea were it not that his review was on a pre-production sample, using an M9 way back in 2013-2014. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by james.liam

[CosmoM3]

1 hour ago, james.liam said:

Would be a good idea were it not that his review was on a pre-production sample, using an M9 way back in 2013-2014. 

Yeah this is the problem with those old reviews, they’re not as helpful as they once were almost a decade back and even less so once we throw in the higher megapixel cameras like the M10-R and the SL2.

[Herr Barnack]

It's starting to sound like when choosing a 28mm M lens, a person cannot go wrong no matter which lens they choose. 

Each lens has its own specific rendering; it comes down to a choice of which "fingerprint" captures the buyer's eye and best expresses his/her photographic vision.

[james.liam]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

11 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

It's starting to sound like when choosing a 28mm M lens, a person cannot go wrong no matter which lens they choose. 

Each lens has its own specific rendering; it comes down to a choice of which "fingerprint" captures the buyer's eye and best expresses his/her photographic vision.

Completely agree. I just don’t what ‘fingerprint the Summicron has. The Summilux I understand. Perhaps it’s a more subtle thing. 

[Herr Barnack]

I cannot comment on the currently in production Summicron (# 11672) but I did own a Summicron #11604 for several years. 

The thing that struck me most about the colors when using the #11604 28 Summicron with Fuji Velvia 50 (RVP) was how velvety they appeared.  The lens was plenty contrasty, but not so much that it made the colors rendered by Velvia to appear garish or over saturated when shooting in soft light. 

When shooting Tri-X rated at ISO 400, soft light produced a similar result, but in black and white; in direct sunlight, the lens and Tri-X combined to produce very sharp, contrasty results - the images would nearly jump off the printing paper. 

I would expect more of the same with the current # 11672 Summicron 28mm; it is said to be the same optical configuration as its predecessor, although some users report improved sharpness in the corners.  If it offers no I/Q improvements over the #11604 that I owned, it is still a world class 28mm optic and I would still recommend it.

Perhaps this thread will shed some light on the # 11672 28mm Summicron:

 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[james.liam]

43 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

I cannot comment on the currently in production Summicron (# 11672) but I did own a Summicron #11604 for several years. 

The thing that struck me most about the colors when using the #11604 28 Summicron with Fuji Velvia 50 (RVP) was how velvety they appeared.  The lens was plenty contrasty, but not so much that it made the colors rendered by Velvia to appear garish or over saturated when shooting in soft light. 

When shooting Tri-X rated at ISO 400, soft light produced a similar result, but in black and white; in direct sunlight, the lens and Tri-X combined to produce very sharp, contrasty results - the images would nearly jump off the printing paper. 

I would expect more of the same with the current # 11672 Summicron 28mm; it is said to be the same optical configuration as its predecessor, although some users report improved sharpness in the corners.  If it offers no I/Q improvements over the #11604 that I owned, it is still a world class 28mm optic and I would still recommend it.

Perhaps this thread will shed some light on the # 11672 28mm Summicron:

 

 

It is a redesign, with the refresh of the Elmarit and Summicron being significant improvements for the benefit of digital but particularly the SL. I have read somewhere that the Summicron, new and old focus shift from ƒ/2.8-5.6 but am not fully certain. This is what concerns me. 

My point of reference is the latest Elmarit; high-contrast, punchy colors. 

[dkmoore]

13 hours ago, james.liam said:

It is a redesign, with the refresh of the Elmarit and Summicron being significant improvements for the benefit of digital but particularly the SL. I have read somewhere that the Summicron, new and old focus shift from ƒ/2.8-5.6 but am not fully certain. This is what concerns me. 

My point of reference is the latest Elmarit; high-contrast, punchy colors. 

I’ve not experienced any focus shift with the 28 Summicron V2. And I didn’t with the V1 either having owned multiple copies of both versions. 
 

someone else posted that the 28 Cron renders similarly to the 50APO which I tend to agree with. It renders naturally without anything smacking you in the face. A beautiful lens in my view. You can always make it look cinematic if desired via unusual angles, interesting light, or editing software.  
 

I loved the 28 Lux but didn’t end up using it much because of size. I ended up using my 35 Lux far more which is why I parted ways and kept the 28 Cron V2. 

[james.liam]

3 minutes ago, dkmoore said:

I’ve not experienced any focus shift with the 28 Summicron V2. And I didn’t with the V1 either having owned multiple copies of both versions. 
 

someone else posted that the 28 Cron renders similarly to the 50APO which I tend to agree with. It renders naturally without anything smacking you in the face. A beautiful lens in my view. You can always make it look cinematic if desired via unusual angles, interesting light, or editing software.  
 

I loved the 28 Lux but didn’t end up using it much because of size. I ended up using my 35 Lux far more which is why I parted ways and kept the 28 Cron V2. 

Thanks for your experiences. Very helpful. 

My 35 is the Biogon-C so I have nothing fast to default to.

[Mark II]

14 hours ago, james.liam said:

It is a redesign, with the refresh of the Elmarit and Summicron being significant improvements for the benefit of digital but particularly the SL. I have read somewhere that the Summicron, new and old focus shift from ƒ/2.8-5.6 but am not fully certain. This is what concerns me. 

Another 11672 user here. There should not be meaningful focus shift with the 28mm Summicron. What there seems to have been was a small number of early lenses with a QC issue affecting focus and field curvature. In my case (an earlyish adopter) it took one exchange and one subsequent service pass, but the resulting lens is one of the best wide angles that I have used.

The simplistic take is that the Summicron is very well behaved and quite "transparent" in its rendering (flat plane of focus, minimal fringing, smooth bokeh, some vignetting), while the Summilux has more "character" and "pop". The handling on the Summicron is way better on an M body, which may or may not matter depending on how you intend to use the lens.

[FDS]

Fully agree with Mark II regarding 11672. Mine has been great from the beginning and I've used it constantly for four and a half years.  Slight bit of fringing is nearly always fully corrected easily in LR.  Briefly considered the Summilux but the 11672 handles much better and has much, much less fringing.    

[CosmoM3]

I’m on my second Cron 28 ASPH II (11672) and I absolutely love it - I’m considering getting the Lux 28 to replace it, so if anyone is interested in a Cron 28 ASPH II, let me know.

Edited September 17, 2020 by CosmoM3

[ibramr]

James is certainly receiving excellent advice from the forum members and it is very doubtful that I can add to the body of experiences shared here.  I have a question, however, to all contributors to the thread.  It is, would you change, or reconfirm, your opinions if you were confident that James plans to acquire sometime soon, for whatever reason, a Q2.  Yes, I am still happy with the upgrade from the Elmarit to the Summicron, then to the Summilux.  And yes, I later acquired a Q2 which I enjoy and use frequently.  The two 28mm M and Q Summiluxii are excellent but different and certainly it is a pleasure to own and use both.  In retrospect, however, maybe it was more optimal expense-wise to keep the Summicron.  The cost differential to upgrade to the Summilux was considerable and maybe I would have optimized my expenditures staying with the Summicron had I factored in the possibility of acquiring the Q2 in the relatively near future.  Regards   

 

[otto.f]

No, I would never buy a Q2 and especially not to limit my possibilities to buy what M lens ever

[scroy]

Does anyone know if Leica has started shipping the Portugal versions of the 28mm Summaron? 

It was supposed to have started in Sept, but I have not hearing any recent updates from my local Leica store.

[Jeff S]

On 9/14/2020 at 12:54 PM, dkmoore said:

someone else posted that the 28 Cron renders similarly to the 50APO which I tend to agree with. It renders naturally without anything smacking you in the face. A beautiful lens in my view. You can always make it look cinematic if desired via unusual angles, interesting light, or editing software.  
 

 

I find that the M 28 Summicron (v.1) renders similarly to the M 50 Summilux ASPH, not the M 50 APO Summicron , which has a cleaner, more modern aesthetic, with even greater APO correction.  All superior lenses in any case, with opportunities (as you note) to adjust renderings.

Jeff

Edited September 24, 2020 by Jeff S

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[dkmoore]

3 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I find that the M 28 Summicron (v.1) renders similarly to the M 50 Summilux ASPH, not the M 50 APO Summicron , which has a cleaner, more modern aesthetic, with even greater APO correction.  All superior lenses in any case, with opportunities (as you note) to adjust renderings.

Jeff

I agree with your assessment. I find the V1 28 Cron has a more vintage look with a more pronounced 3D affect. 
 

The V2 has a cleaner and more natural look like the 50 APO (what I was eluding to). 
 

All four lenses are great in their own right. The three lenses I’ve always kept in the stable after owning pretty much all lenses are:

50 Lux asph 

50 APO

28 Cron V1 or V2 (currently V2)

 

 

[Jeff S]

1 minute ago, dkmoore said:

All four lenses are great in their own right. The three lenses I’ve always kept in the stable after owning pretty much all lenses are:

50 Lux asph 

50 APO

28 Cron V1 or V2 (currently V2)

 

 

I can relate, as after after using M bodies since the 80’s, I’m satisfied with 4 core lenses... 28 Summicron v.1, 35 Summicron ASPH v.1, 50 Summilux ASPH and 50 APO Summicron.  Only recently did I add a 1960 35 Summaron f2.8, just to add a little vintage flavor. 

Jeff