'O' Serie + VALOO.. ??

[robert_parker]

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Hi Everyone

I have a query about the aperture settings on the modern 'O' Serie replica camera produced by Leica.

I've considered putting a VOOLA aperture control ring on the front of the camera with a FISON hood, or possibly a suitable push on filter, when out and about, to allow easier adjustment of the aperture lever on the front of the lens.  I know this works as I have transferred the VOOLA + FISON from my 3,5 Elmar to test.

Using some sort of aperture control on the 'O' Serie is useful as otherwise the aperture lever is quite tricky to adjust as it is nearly flush with the front face of the lens. 

I've no doubt that even with a coated lens, the camera might benefit from the use of a lens hood (as do most cameras).

The 'O' Serie lens is not detachable and has 1917 aperture values (f3,8; f4,5; f6,3; f9 and f12) and shutter speeds are 1/500; 1/200; 1/100;1/50; and 1/20s + B).

The question is if instead of a VOOLA I tried a VALOO adapter, which has a similar connection to the lever on the 'O' Serie lens as the VOOLA but adjusts by aligning marks on the front of the adapter which correspond with modern aperture values, is the computation of the 1917 'O' Serie lens close enough to a 3,5 Elmar that if for instance f5,6 was selected on the VALOO, it would position the selector on the 'O' Serie lens to about the right place to correspond with f5,6 on the 'O' Serie and so on through the aperture range ?

In other words would the use of a VALOO allow the use of modern aperture settings on the replica 1917 lens ?

Any comments would be appreciated !!

Thanks in advance,

Robert

Edited September 2, 2020 by robert_parker

[a.noctilux]

Hello Robert,

Funny that I had same idea, some years ago.

As I don't remember why the setup 0 Replica + Valoo did not work.

Just done it again as experimentation, minutes ago.

Very tricky as usual.

When mounted Valoo on the lens, setting at f/3.5 (not 3.8 as you stated), nothing to complain (if a bit front heavy 😉).

I try to describe at best ...

when turning the Valoo aperture ring pass f/12, the Zero stays at f/12, but the Valoo goes further, then the coupling is out, never re-coupling again,

when turning back the Valoo's ring.

I understand better comparing the Anastigmat with Elmar 3.5/5cm that I own which works well with Valoo.

If you have the Zero, have a look at the setting tab which is flush with the front ring, while on Elmar it has about 1mm more thickness to retain the Valoo's aperture ring.

 

 

[willeica]

11 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello Robert,

Funny that I had same idea, some years ago.

As I don't remember why the setup 0 Replica + Valoo did not work.

Just done it again as experimentation, minutes ago.

Very tricky as usual.

When mounted Valoo on the lens, setting at f/3.5 (not 3.8 as you stated), nothing to complain (if a bit front heavy 😉).

I try to describe at best ...

when turning the Valoo aperture ring pass f/12, the Zero stays at f/12, but the Valoo goes further, then the coupling is out, never re-coupling again,

when turning back the Valoo's ring.

I understand better comparing the Anastigmat with Elmar 3.5/5cm that I own which works well with Valoo.

If you have the Zero, have a look at the setting tab which is flush with the front ring, while on Elmar it has about 1mm more thickness to retain the Valoo's aperture ring.

 

 

The VALOO is a much later device designed for a post war Elmar and for darkroom work. I will, however, try my VALOO on my first version Elmar from 1926 and report back. I gave up using a VALOO as I find that Elmars rarely give rise to flare. The FISON can be used, but then you generally have to work around a single aperture and change exposure by changing shutter speed, which is my usual way of working with early Leicas anyway. The VALOO needs to be carefully mounted with the apertures on the lens and the VALOO matching, but even then slippage can occur. I have a lot of Elmar variants in my collection and when I get back I will report on the one that works best with the VALOO.

William

[a.noctilux]

Hello William,

Robert asking to use Valoo with 0 Replica's Anastigmat, so I tried to answer why it would be tricky to use the setup.

Don't bother to mount Valoo on your multiple Elmar (or to learn that some would work, some would not).

I don't use Valoo for long now, as it's very well made so too front heavy, a bit less than the genius Fikus, but Fison saves the bunch when hood is a must.

[willeica]

I am aware that it is a replica Anastigmat that Robert has. The VALOO is really only for later Elmars. I just wanted to see if it will work on the very earliest ones which have a different front design to later ones. Jerzy and I started a big exercise on the 50mm Elmar some years ago and we counted more variants than the 25 listed by Van Hasbroeck in his book. Robert’s request has raised my interest and I still intend to check this and report back.

William 

[Ambro51]

Growing out your fingernails a bit greatly helps when setting aperature on these lenses.  I used the 0 a Lot, never seen any improvements using a hood.  The 0 is not a quick camera to use.

[robert_parker]

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Thank you for your comments so far - it seems as if the VALOO might work as long as you don't wind it past the equivalent of f12 although in practice it may be cumbersome and not a perfect fit; the question really is will the f stops selected by the VALOO between f3.5 and f11 (which match the modern standard) actually transfer the modern aperture settings to the 'O' Serie Anastigmat lens....

Thanks so far to William and A. Noctilux for your advice and field testing - I'll be overjoyed to hear more !!

[robert_parker]

5 hours ago, Ambro51 said:

Growing out your fingernails a bit greatly helps when setting aperture on these lenses.  I used the 0 a Lot, never seen any improvements using a hood.  The 0 is not a quick camera to use.

I agree - I'm the guy who used it in The One Challenge in Copenhagen, got it right through the entire two hour shoot, only to open the camera to take out the image card.... 😲

I tend to use the FISON to change the aperture using the VOOLA insert on the Elmar lenses (as I have short fingernails and big hands 😁) and it appears to work safely with the Anastigmat, so I'm mainly using the hood as a tool to change aperture rather than for its properties as protection against flare; it's just that with the 'O' Serie you then need to convert using the old values, so the VOOLA, if it worked and transferred the correct settings to the lens, would be a way of using a modern calibration.

[a.noctilux]

Robert,

As the "problem" also interested me, I took time to do some "home" measurings.

Comparing the distance of stops between Valoo and Elmar markings, then measuring the aperture of the lenses Elmar/Anastigmat from front, not quite measurable

( ...well 10 to 15% at worse depending on the front lens element curvature), not much if any discrepencies.

 

So if for using the Valoo on "0 Replica", I can trust the modern aperture markings to set with confidence from f/3.5 to f/11, clics at f/4, 5.6, 8.

Then I'd try not to go to f/16 with Valoo 😉

[willeica]

Just a few checks tonight with cameras/lenses that came handily out of the press near to the VALOO. These are for settings on the VALOO and what the lens shows

VALOO reading         3.5         4                  5.6               8         11          16

1A 5652                     3.5   3.5/4.5       almost 6.3        9         12.5       18

Wartime 568412      3.5   almost 4.5        6.3          9/12.5    12.5/16 18

Red Scale 1341234 3.5         4                  5.6              8            11         16 and 22 in the 'tolerance' at the far end

The Red Scale, which is from post the introduction of the VALOO, is the most exact fit. A lot of the other differences are not great, except for the wartime one which is almost a stop out at f 8 and f11. There is a bit of tolerance at either end which you might be able to play around with and might give a closer match at f 8 and f11, but do you really want to be doing this? Film should, of course, give you a degree of tolerance to adjust anything within a one stop range. 

The other issue which I cannot comment on is whether the VALOO would fit on a replica Anastigmat or whether the apertures will engage and move together. The two items were not designed to be used together, of course.

FISON and one aperture or no hood are my recommendations.

William

[Ambro51]

Maybe I should put one on.  It would hide the single feature of the 0 I find cheap and ugly.  That’s what looks like stamped on lettering on the lens face.  Does not look crisp and cut at all.  That little thing, to me, ruins my eye appeal factor when looking at the camera.  BTW I was just looking over eBay and Several of the 2004 2nd series 0’s are for sale.  They have the “normal” style finder.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Ambro51