New Leica lenses Made in Portugal

[Herr Barnack]

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19 hours ago, anickpick said:

Leica lenses made in Portugal thanks to Donald?

I wish I could buy some in Switzerland.

What a great opportunity to buy limited edition lenses at a discount!

Let's get our facts straight, shall we?  As I posted earlier:

Quote

...It is a bit of relief from the asinine scrotum kicking that U.S. based Leica buyers have been subjected to at the hands of the geniuses at the office of U.S. Trade Representative, headed up by some obscure buffoon of a bureaucrat named Robert Emmet Lighthizer. 

 

[Joop van Heijgen]

3 hours ago, Robert E said:

Interesting observation: if you enlarge one of the photos taken inside the Portugal plant, you’ll see the top plate of a M camera. It of course says: “Leica Camera Wetzlar Germany” on it. Wonder if the bottom plate says: “Made in Portugal” like some of the R series cameras did?

Doubt it. 

 

Quote

'Made in Germany' is the biggest Leica illusion.....😎
 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Joop van Heijgen

[Jeff S]

3 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

Let's get our facts straight, shall we?  As I posted earlier:

It is a bit of relief from the asinine scrotum kicking that U.S. based Leica buyers have been subjected to at the hands of the geniuses at the office of U.S. Trade Representative, headed up by some obscure buffoon of a bureaucrat named Robert Emmet Lighthizer. 

 

That ‘obscure buffoon of a bureaucrat’ was a Presidential nominee.

Jeff

[haikos]

- Were the tariffs on german-made lenses intended for the cinema, scientific, and medical sectors while the consumer camera lens sector became collateral damage due to guilt by association?

- Is there also a tariff on Japan-made lenses? I have noticed a decent increase in ZM lens prices (but not so much on the VM lenses??). I haven't ever kept track of the other brands.

- If ELCAN still made Leica products, Canadian production wouldn't necessarily be exempt even though we have an FTA with the US. Look at our aluminium tariffs as a matter of "national security" (loophole) to the US.

- If the administration is (hopefully) changed in the coming months, how far the hypocrisy goes will be revealed when these and other tariffs remain in place. Let's see.

[jdlaing]

39 minutes ago, haikos said:

- Were the tariffs on german-made lenses intended for the cinema, scientific, and medical sectors while the consumer camera lens sector became collateral damage due to guilt by association?

- Is there also a tariff on Japan-made lenses? I have noticed a decent increase in ZM lens prices (but not so much on the VM lenses??). I haven't ever kept track of the other brands.

- If ELCAN still made Leica products, Canadian production wouldn't necessarily be exempt even though we have an FTA with the US. Look at our aluminium tariffs as a matter of "national security" (loophole) to the US.

- If the administration is (hopefully) changed in the coming months, how far the hypocrisy goes will be revealed when these and other tariffs remain in place. Let's see.

The tariffs on German lenses and such weren’t targeted to an industry but straight across the board. No tariff on Japan as they trade fairly, sort of. Canada would be exempt with the new trade agreement.

[adan]

The tariffs relate specifically to retaliation against adjudicated EU-subsidized prices of Airbus jets competing with Boeing jets (Large Civil Aircraft).

They were chosen to be most "painful" to various EU countries as an incentive to change EU policy regarding Airbus. Therefore Japan and Canada do not enter the picture at all; they do not build Airbuses (and yes, ELCAN would probably have also escaped the tariffs, just as Portugal has - the tariffs are totally and completely about products coming from factories/farms/fishermen in the EU, not specific companies).

The exact wording defines the optics affected (see below) which is why "Portugese" optics are not taxed.

Quote

Section 3 – Products of Germany described below are subject to additional import duties of 25 percent ad valorem:

....coffee, roasted, cafeinated or non-decafeinated; Instant coffee; axes, billhooks, and similar hewing tools, and part thereof; sweet biscuits; printed books, leaflets, brochures; Fresh cheeses; etc. etc. etc.

9002.11.90 Objective lenses and parts & access. thereof, for cameras, projectors, or photographic enlargers or reducers, except projection, nesoi (not elsewhere specified or included)

There are also tariffs on Portugese products, since it is part of the EU (cheeses and misc. other dairy products; pork other than ham and shoulder; fruit and fruit juices; mussels, clams and cockles and other molluscs;.....etc).

But lenses are not part of that sub-listing, so that is the loophole for Leica. The US bureaucrats did not think there was a Portugese optical industry worth punishing.

Here is the entire list of all EU products, by country, that are subject to 10% or 25% tariffs in this dispute: https://www.crowell.com/files/EU_Large_Civil_Aircraft_Final_Product_List10022019.pdf

Edited August 29, 2020 by adan

[haikos]

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Thanks for clarifying, JD and Andrew,

Cheers!

[rivi1969]

On 8/28/2020 at 9:39 AM, Robert E said:

Interesting observation: if you enlarge one of the photos taken inside the Portugal plant, you’ll see the top plate of a M camera. It of course says: “Leica Camera Wetzlar Germany” on it. Wonder if the bottom plate says: “Made in Portugal” like some of the R series cameras did?

Doubt it. 
 

 

Hello Robert, all cameras and lenses made in Portugal say "Made in Germany" anyway. Including the SL body, some Ms (don't know which models exactly) and some lenses like the 50mm f2 Summicron, which has the engraving in small, black letters. So there is no "new" production line for lenses in Portugal, it has been there for years. 

[james.liam]

My R8 and R9, both circa 2002-2004 have ‘Made in Portugal’ engraved on it as do some of the accessories. The Portugal factory dates from the early 1970’s IIRC. 

[luigi bertolotti]

On 8/30/2020 at 2:24 AM, rivi1969 said:

Hello Robert, all cameras and lenses made in Portugal say "Made in Germany" anyway. Including the SL body, some Ms (don't know which models exactly) and some lenses like the 50mm f2 Summicron, which has the engraving in small, black letters. So there is no "new" production line for lenses in Portugal, it has been there for years. 

...so that they cannot be distinguished from the "Germany" ?  A pity... 😁... they won't be recognizable as "collectibles"  in 30 years or so... 😆

[Joop van Heijgen]

6 hours ago, james.liam said:

My R8 and R9, both circa 2002-2004 have ‘Made in Portugal’ engraved on it as do some of the accessories. The Portugal factory dates from the early 1970’s IIRC. 

Leica started with the Leica R3 producing around '77 in Portugal. Most M6 Leicas are also produced in Portugal. 

'Made in Germany' becomes 'made by Leica'.

 

 

[haikos]

My local ad also has the MiP lenses listed alongside the regular lineup (I'm in Canada).

[Michael Geschlecht]

On 8/25/2020 at 5:38 PM, pedaes said:

What is your evidence for this statement? Cameras with 'Made in Midland' engravings are more valuable and sought after than Wetzlar built examples where they were being assembled at both locations. Many would argue that some of Leica's greatest lenses were designed by Dr. Mandler in the Midland plant, and subsequently built there. How about an original Noctilux for $30,000?

Hello Pedades,

The original 1966, 50mm, F1.2, Noctilux is both a Wetzlar design & Wetzlar built.

The 1976, 50mm, F1, Noctilux, built in Midland, had Walter Mandler on the design team.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

[Michael Geschlecht]

On 8/26/2020 at 7:04 PM, logan2z said:

My guess is none of this will matter.  Whether or not there is any meaningful difference between the two lenses, I suspect that a Made in Portugal lens will be viewed by many/most as inferior to a Made in Germany lens.  Again, purely perception, but perception is everything. 

Hello Logan,

Today's perception is only "everything" until a new paradigm comes along. 

Best Regards,

Michael

 

[graphlex]

In the meantime, I am thoroughly impressed with my Made in Portugal 50 Summilux BC.  And I am a fairly tough grader. 

[Michael Geschlecht]

On 8/27/2020 at 1:41 PM, LocalHero1953 said:

If Germany started making port and vinho verde, do you think we could get up to 6 threads?

Hello Paul,

With the rate that the climate is changing at we may have to.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited November 18, 2020 by Michael Geschlecht

[Michael Geschlecht]

On 8/27/2020 at 2:24 PM, Arrow said:

The label "Made in Germany" was initially introduced in the nineteenth century in Britain as a caveat emptor measurement and to protect the British economy from, regarded as low quality, German products. Times change

 

Hello Arrow,

The Worldwide marking of the Country of Manufacture began in 1891. It only pertained to things made for export.

The first pieces marked are usually only marked with the name of the Country. Such as "Germany".  This type of mark was sometimes also used later. For all Countries

"Made In Germany" as a mark came later. For all Countries

Some well known places which had previously been politically separate, such as "Bavaria" were allowed to use their historic name.

Some places well known for what they made, such as "Limoges" were also allowed to do this.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited November 18, 2020 by Michael Geschlecht

[Gobert]

3 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Paul,

With the rate that the climate is changing at we may have to.

Best Regards,

Michael

Please stay with your Gewurtztraminer. 

[adan]

Of note, the US and EU agreed Tuesday, June 15, 2021, at the recent Brussels Summit, to suspend their dispute over subsidies for Airbus and Boeing for at least 5 years, and rescind all tariffs created by that dispute.

https://simpleflying.com/eu-us-airbus-boeing-dispute-ends/

Time will tell what that means for "Made In Portugal" M lenses.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Pixeleater]

...and will we see a price roll back to reflect the cessation of the tariffs? I hope so, but my cynical side says we wont and Leica will rationalize institutionalizing their existing price list. They might claim exchange rates have a significant impact on their products imported into the USA. As our economy rebounds our currency will strengthen which may reduce the prices of foreign goods to some extent. Time will tell.