New Leica lenses Made in Portugal

[logan2z]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I was looking around to see who has stock of some Leica lenses I'm interested in and noticed that many Out of Stock lenses are now listed as 'Made in Portugal'.  I asked a dealer about this and it looks like new production of many lenses (and maybe other products) has moved to Portugal from Germany in order to avoid additional tariffs that some countries have placed on German made goods.  Prices have been reduced as a result.  For example, the Summicron 50mm/f2 non-APO is now $2395 instead of $2695.  I haven't seen any official announcement about this yet, but it's happening.

I don't know that there's any downside to buying Leica products that are made in Portugal, but I personally prefer them to say 'Made in Germany', even if that means paying a bit more for them.  I'm quite sure that product quality will remain high but, for me, it's a psychological thing - and who knows, it could affect resale value of some Leica products (not that I ever sell anything anyway  ) .

Edited August 25, 2020 by logan2z

[Robert E]

Leica did this once before in the 70’s when they moved everything to Canada. The lenses “Made in Canada” do not hold the same value or demand as the ones “Made in Germany”. A previous forum comment was made that even though the 50mm Cron says Made in Germany on it, its actually being made in Portugal. Anyone know if this is true or even possible to do that?

 

[pedaes]

7 minutes ago, logan2z said:

has moved to Portugal

I don't think anything has 'moved' to Portugal as they have been made there for years, just never been explicit.

[sml_photo]

I've seen some online stores offering less expensive versions of some current, new lenses that are made in Portugal. 
Interesting option to save consumers some money.

[a.noctilux]

Hello Stephen,

can you share some links, please ?

[pedaes]

9 minutes ago, Robert E said:

The lenses “Made in Canada” do not hold the same value or demand as the ones “Made in Germany”. 

What is your evidence for this statement? Cameras with 'Made in Midland' engravings are more valuable and sought after than Wetzlar built examples where they were being assembled at both locations. Many would argue that some of Leica's greatest lenses were designed by Dr. Mandler in the Midland plant, and subsequently built there. How about an original Noctilux for $30,000?

Edited August 25, 2020 by pedaes

[logan2z]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

15 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I don't think anything has 'moved' to Portugal as they have been made there for years, just never been explicit.

That may be the case, although many products still say Made in Germany on them, like the 50 Cron. So maybe the 'move' is just in the labeling so that the true country of manufacture is listed.  I would think, though, that there are legal implications of not listing the true country of manufacture, so I tend to believe that Made in Germany lenses are actually made in Germany.  

Edited August 25, 2020 by logan2z

[pedaes]

9 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello Stephen,

can you share some links, please ?

It's true! Here.

https://leicastoremiami.com/collections/leica-m-system-m-system-lenses

A temporary move to reduce import tariffs?

[Jeff S]

Discussion already started here...

 

Jeff

[pedaes]

5 minutes ago, logan2z said:

That may be the case, although many products still say Made in Germany on them, like the 50 Cron. So maybe the 'move' is just in the labeling so that the true country of manufacture is listed.  I would think, though, that there are legal implications of not listing the true country of manufacture, so I tend to believe that Made in Germany lenses are actually made in Germany.  

I see they are advertised here https://leicastoremiami.com/collections/leica-m-system-m-system-lenses

Is it to get round import tariffs?  Or maybe just a legal requirement to be clear about where made, or both? Ask David Farkis.

Edited August 25, 2020 by pedaes

[a.noctilux]

Thanks,

even this one !

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[logan2z]

1 minute ago, pedaes said:

I see they are advertised here https://leicastoremiami.com/collections/leica-m-system-m-system-lenses

Is it to get round import tarriffs?

Yes, also on B&H's web site:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/86059-USA/Leica_11826_50mm_f_2_0_Summicron_M.html

Note the link to the 'Made in Portugal' page that takes you to a different product page for the incoming stock.  

[logan2z]

6 minutes ago, pedaes said:

 

Is it to get round import tariffs?  

That's what I was told. 

[pedaes]

3 minutes ago, logan2z said:

That's what I was told. 

Be interesting to see what happens in Europe, and if the change is made there. Difficult to see how they are not relabled, and if they are not difficult to see how US ones could go back when the German tariff ends. Or a big leap in faith and semantics!

[logan2z]

Maybe silly, but this pushed me over the edge to buy a 50 Cron from existing Made in Germany stock.   Should arrive by Monday.     Maybe I should get that 28mm Elmarit too while I'm at it 😉

[jdlaing]

Leica has been making things in Portugal for decades. It’s not new. It is a 100% Leica owned and controlled plant.

[logan2z]

From the Tamarkin web site:

Designed in Germany, Made in Portugal

The Leica Camera state-of-the-art production facility in Portugal is in full swing. And to relieve the strain of recent tariffs here in the U.S., you can get some of the most popular Leica M lenses at a lower price than their Made in Germany counterparts... and, these new "Made in Portugal" lenses are made to the same stringent quality standards as the German-made lenses.

After all, they do still say "Leica" on the front!

[adan]

True, but as a parts supplier for the most part, in recent years (and to the now-wholly-separate Leica Geosystems and Leica Microsystems as well). With final assembly and shipping in Germany to acquire the "Made in Germany" cachet.

I tend to agree that shifting the label (and presumably final assembly of some description) to Portugal is a way to work around the 25% tariffs on German-made optics resulting from the Boeing/Airbus and US/EU trade brouhahas. A twist on the concept of "gray-market."

But as someone who treasures my mostly-Canadian-made M lenses, no big deal for me.

[adan]

4 hours ago, Robert E said:

Leica did this once before in the 70’s when they moved everything to Canada. The lenses “Made in Canada” do not hold the same value or demand as the ones “Made in Germany”. A previous forum comment was made that even though the 50mm Cron says Made in Germany on it, its actually being made in Portugal. Anyone know if this is true or even possible to do that?

As to "made in" in general, really a question of final assembly. A lot of things Leica sells have Portugese-made parts or sub-assemblies (e.g. the outer body shell (at least) of the digital SL) - assembled into finished products in Germany.

As to people paying more for the items labelled "Made in Germany," in my view that is just a suitable "tax on ignorance." (a.k.a. "A fool and his money are soon parted.")

I always prefer Canadian-made, Mandler-designed Leica lenses, regardless of price, unless there is no such option. Ernst Leitz Canada (ELCAN) was where the U.S. military bought its mil-spec high-resolution surveillance lenses (180 APO-ELCAN-R, 75mm ELCAN-R, 66mm ELCAN-M, 50mm ELCAN-M, etc.) during the Cold War.

http://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2017/09/a-very-important-part-of-leica-history.html

It still exists as Raytheon's high-end military optics facility. https://www.raytheon.com/contact/elcan

BTW, the Leitz Canada factory was established in 1952, as a fall-back position in case the Rooskies invaded West Germany.

 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[nuc001]

5 hours ago, pedaes said:

What is your evidence for this statement? Cameras with 'Made in Midland' engravings are more valuable and sought after than Wetzlar built examples where they were being assembled at both locations. Many would argue that some of Leica's greatest lenses were designed by Dr. Mandler in the Midland plant, and subsequently built there. How about an original Noctilux for $30,000?

From my position here in Thailand, the 35mm F2 Summicron V.4 KOB resale price is around 800-1000 USD less for the "Made in Canada" version.