Hankering after Large Format.

[chrism]

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I enjoyed my foray into LF, starting with a Crown Graphic, moving to a Chamonix 4x5 and then a Chamonix 10x8. You can take the 4x5 out with you for landscapes, but the 10x8 is more challenging, and almost everything I did with it was portraits. When I relapsed last year I decided to sell it all, and pretty much everything else apart from a couple of SLRs and Hasselblads. The 10x8 got snapped up quick, but there was not much interest in the 4x5 and I still have it, but only one lens now. I did 4x5 development in several ways - 2 sheets separated by a a bent wire in a tall metal tank, the Stearman Press tank, and the insert whose name escapes me for a larger Paterson (I didn't care for it much). 4x5 scanning on the X1 was great, but the V850 does the job very nearly as well.

It's a very different and deliberate way of working, but quite satisfying, and of course portraits with such thin depth of focus and older lenses are quite addictive. The LF forum (as in the link above) is very helpful. I'll take the odd picture with the 4x5 until either someone wants it or something else happens.

[Ambro51]

For a decade I worked as a traveling Wet Plate Photographer, using basically period correct gear, doing tintypes and Ambrotype say {American) Civil War reenactments, historic sites and cowboy shoots.  I camped at the location, developed and processed right there, and was able to set up big equipment in fixed settings.  Usually I used a simple sliding box half plate camera on a studio tripod stand.  Sitters would be at a backdrop, and I used reflectors and a head brace.   •••• After getting test shots done and the ball rolling it was indeed a pleasure to do all this, being in a fixed location was a Real blessing.  Of course, with wet plate you do it all there, and with a dark box, water bucket, table and my work box.  Inside the tent I’d do the delicate task of pouring the varnish, and drying it.  I’d prepare the image from start to finish usually in about 15 minutes.      It was all basically large format, and once you had everything going, was pretty easy.  The BIG advantage you had instant feedback how your image is, unlike your sheet and roll films.   Also, after you get the chems in, and your gear, doing plates is much cheaper film, shot per shot.  Fun, Interesting way to do Large Format, and end up with something besides a larger negative.  ::-)

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[chrism]

That instant feedback was something I enjoyed with using paper negatives. I could make an exposure, walk into the darkroom and toss the paper into a tray of developer, see what I had under the safelight and either fix it, or walk out and do something slightly different. Slow motion chimping!

[James S]

So, as an update, I've gone and done it. There was a 'Starter Kit' (not marketed as such) on ebay comprising a Chamonix 4x5 with 90, 135 and 250 lenses and most of the other goodies I think I need, all for the price of a couple of lenses I don't really use. I just now need to work out:

• How I'll digitise the negatives (without chopping them up to fit in the wife's coolscan).
• Which developing tank to go for (thinking SP455)
• Whether I need to upgrade from a changing bag to a tent.
• Just how little idea I had when I was stupid enough to click the Make Offer button.

[stray cat]

22 minutes ago, James S said:

So, as an update, I've gone and done it. There was a 'Starter Kit' (not marketed as such) on ebay comprising a Chamonix 4x5 with 90, 135 and 250 lenses and most of the other goodies I think I need, all for the price of a couple of lenses I don't really use. I just now need to work out:

• How I'll digitise the negatives (without chopping them up to fit in the wife's coolscan).
• Which developing tank to go for (thinking SP455)
• Whether I need to upgrade from a changing bag to a tent.
• Just how little idea I had when I was stupid enough to click the Make Offer button.

I can't help you with the other stuff, although I feel a sense of solidarity with you on the fourth point, but I'd recommend ANYONE to use a changing tent rather than a bag. Just so much less fiddly and, certainly with large format, so much more practical. You really don't want folds of cloth getting in your way when you're trying to do something which is fiddly anyway. Best of luck on your journey, and please post results in the "I Like Film" thread where photographs from non-Leica gear are permitted.

[otto.f]

I still advise the SP455, it’s certainly not perfect, but better than anything else for that price. It tends to leak a bit but I close it with gaffer tape to hold the cover tight on the tank and use a towel when agitating. Open tray development was always a mess in my workflow. Personally, I have no problems at all with a changing bag, especially in combination with the Stearman Press, it’s all flat material. Never been able to discover dust problems with my bag which seems anti-static, or so static that it sucks all the dust from the film 😄. I just bought the normal bag that comes up when you search for it on a webshop for analogue. 
Oh, and stick to incident light metering if the subject isn’t too dynamic.

Edited May 14, 2021 by otto.f

[250swb]

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2 hours ago, James S said:

So, as an update, I've gone and done it. There was a 'Starter Kit' (not marketed as such) on ebay comprising a Chamonix 4x5 with 90, 135 and 250 lenses and most of the other goodies I think I need, all for the price of a couple of lenses I don't really use. I just now need to work out:

• How I'll digitise the negatives (without chopping them up to fit in the wife's coolscan).
• Which developing tank to go for (thinking SP455)
• Whether I need to upgrade from a changing bag to a tent.
• Just how little idea I had when I was stupid enough to click the Make Offer button.

An Epson V700 is still a very good option for scanning large format negatives.

See what Stearman are doing at the moment, I have one of their 'tanks' and it's very good.

Definitely a tent, but as Phil says this is a great upgrade over a bag anyway. Mine is a Calumet 'Film Changing Room', works great.

Initial stupidity (your fourth point) will in retrospect seem insignificant after you've made a few beginners mistakes, 😉

[James S]

The Epson v700 looks good, but might require me to sell a lens I do use!

Stearman Sp-455 is sitting in an online shopping cart as I type, so good to hear two of you recommending it.

Tent is tempting, but the Calumet is out of stock with Wex (who I presume are the only sellers of that as I think they bought calumet), and the Harrison is £200 more!

 

[frame-it]

3 hours ago, James S said:

How I'll digitise the negatives (without chopping them up to fit in the wife's coolscan).

i would scan via DSLR and a good lens, take 4 shots or more per negative [align the negative each time] and photomerge in lightroom

[stray cat]

9 minutes ago, James S said:

The Epson v700 looks good, but might require me to sell a lens I do use!

Stearman Sp-455 is sitting in an online shopping cart as I type, so good to hear two of you recommending it.

Tent is tempting, but the Calumet is out of stock with Wex (who I presume are the only sellers of that as I think they bought calumet), and the Harrison is £200 more!

 

I use this one: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/41880-REG/Photoflex_AC_CROO1_Film_Changing_Room_25.html

I've had it for 12 or so years - initially bought to load 4X5 film holders on the road. It's not too expensive (comparatively) and it does the job just fine.

[James S]

37 minutes ago, frame-it said:

i would scan via DSLR and a good lens, take 4 shots or more per negative [align the negative each time] and photomerge in lightroom

I think that's probably going to be the route for my first attempts. NegativeLabPro even suggests you can use an iPad as the light source.

29 minutes ago, stray cat said:

I use this one: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/41880-REG/Photoflex_AC_CROO1_Film_Changing_Room_25.html

I've had it for 12 or so years - initially bought to load 4X5 film holders on the road. It's not too expensive (comparatively) and it does the job just fine.

Thanks Phil, seems photoflex don't have much of a presence over on this side of the pond, but it did lead me to another (out of stock) option. Looks like my first negs will be loaded in a bag.

[frame-it]

14 minutes ago, James S said:

use an iPad as the light source.

keep the negative around 1cm above the ipad, otherwise the screen texture shoes up

[James S]

7 minutes ago, frame-it said:

keep the negative around 1cm above the ipad, otherwise the screen texture shoes up

Good advice thanks, at least that's a mistake I can correct free of charge unlike:

• Screwing up loading the film
• Fogging the film with my watch having forgotten to take it off before loading the film.
• Removing the dark slide with the shutter open 
• Double exposing the film
• Not exposing the other sheet of film
• My dog getting bored with the whole process and walking off just as I trip the shutter.
• Forgetting to put the dark slide back in before removing the film holder
• Ruining the film as I load it into the tank.
• Mixing up developer and fixer
• Not screwing the tank lid down properly
• Finding the freebie film holders he 'chucked in' have light leaks, (which is why he didn't include them in the original listing)

(and those are just the things I know I will get wrong).

[Pyrogallol]

Get a changing bag big enough to be able to pull the dark slide cover out, but not all the way out, to slide the film In and out.

I develop my sheet film in a print drum on a roller base intended for processing colour paper, uses very little chemicals.

when taking the picture keep the slide in your hand, you can use it as a lens hood, if you don’t put it down you should not be able to forget to put it back after the exposure.

always feel the notches in the film so you load it the right way round in the dark slide. And flick the edge of the film to check that you have not picked up two sheets by accident, some are packed with paper between each sheet and some are not and may stick together.

 

[Stuart Richardson]

Like anything, 4x5 just takes a bit of practice. It will become second nature if you work at it a bit. I find that it helps to close the lens before you put the holder in. It becomes habit if you finish composing, lock everything down, stop the lens down and close the shutter. Then when you insert the holder, it is always closed.

One free tip -- if you find you have really odd, cloudy looking amorphous light leaks, check if you are using a newer Toyo holder with plastic or composite dark slides. They had a batch that did not fully block out bright light, so they led to progressive and difficult to trace light leaks. They replaced the defective ones with aluminum slides.

Back when I first did 4x5 in 2005, I dropped it after awhile because I felt like the Mamiya 7II which I had been using alongside was more consistently sharp and much easier to use. I did an MFA in 2016 and my appreciation for 4x5 reemerged. There is something fundamentally different about using a view camera. The perspectives are different, and personally I find that the lack of constraint in terms of compositions (you can shift, rise, tilt etc, but also focus very close) as well as the manner of taking the picture tends to translate to better realized compositions, rather than the default eye-level straight on look (or tilted up or down from eye level). Additionally, if you are a shy photographer with people (I certainly am), I find that people are far more patient and interested to be photographed by a view camera than any smaller format camera. The slowness of the camera (or apparent slowness...they are not so slow with practice) tends to slow down the subjects as well. Perhaps not with dogs, but with people... You also tend to dispense with the initial "posing" that people typically do for cameras. Since they have to wait a bit longer, they often settle down more into their natural expressions, often leading to a better picture.

Here are two photos...one portrait from my 8x10 Chamonix, and the other from 4x5.

 

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[otto.f]

18 hours ago, James S said:

mistake

There’s a nice app: Reciprocity app. It’s designed for long exposure times and their corrections per film. But when you use it to check and choose your aperture/time combination you come in a focused attitude. This will help you to keep the steps in the right sequence. 

[James S]

Well it has arrived, with a generous 9 boxes of film, though I have no idea how many sheets left per box!

I think I’ve managed to get my first ever 4 sheets of tri-x loaded and even managed to spot that I’d flipped one of the slides before taking them out of the bag. And yes, I understand that a tent would be much easier!

Just have to persuade one of the dogs to stay still in a sunny spot now.

[otto.f]

Congrats!

[LocalHero1953]

I am also working my way through the alternate universe that is large format. So far I have managed the following mistakes (each one just once so far):

• Exposed one sheet twice.
• Forgotten which sheet was exposed twice.
• Forgotten to close the shutter before pulling out the slide
• Forgotten which film was exposed to an open shutter
• Put the slide back the same way round
• Forgotten which film holder had the slide in the wrong way round.

The common factor in every case was working too fast. On the other hand, since the weather and light always change the instant you have everything set up, working fast seems to be incentivised.

On changing bags.......I have a very large bag into which I put a cardboard box, which holds it open enough to work easily with slides, film and the Stearman tank. I find the Stearman tank doesn't leak if you follow the instructions to squeeze the sides before tightening the caps.

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Hallo,

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[James S]

So far I think I have worked out how most of it works. And, despite having abysmally failed to persuade either dog to sit still long enough in the right spot, I have managed 4 (rather uninspiring) exposures. Next steps: Walk dogs (boo). Quick run to mainstream supermarket to purchase hair bands. Try Taco developing with some rather old developer.

The bonus of having several boxes of film included is that, at the moment, film is free and so I really feel able to just play and see what happens.