This is why I bought an M10R

[jonoslack]

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2 hours ago, Steven said:

I have really been enjoying testing the M10R again this week. 

One thing I notice is that with older lenses (i.e. my steel rim), the "effects" are amplified with the resolution. It is a good thing. But it's also clear that this lens for example cannot resolve 40mp. By this I mean that even if shot at 1/4000th with no motion blur, cropping in is only possible to some extent before the image is too unsharp. With my 35AA, on the other hand, I can crop massively, and it's a real pleasure. 

I always say I dont need more than 24MP, and I don't, but I've been enjoying a lot the ability to crop in. Especially for quick street photos. It's great to have more reach, and be able to fix the composition without sacrificing quality. Might be one of these things you get used to and become irreversible. 

As far as the colours are concern, I see the M10R a little more flat but nothing you can't "fix" in half a second in post. 

As it's been said many time, the number one advantage for me is the base ISO at 100 + highlight recovery. This is a game changer. I am now much more confident shooting with an M for serious stuff. If stuff ever get serious, which I am not sure they do ! 

And then, there's the issue of the motion blur at slower speeds. It exists, and it's real. But I am now asking myself if I did not make it a bigger problem than it should be the first time around. I obsessed about this and feared it would come with sacrifies, but this week it has been a non issue. At night, I manage to shoot handheld still stuff perfectly sharp at 1/30th. Even managed at 1/15th if needed. And when things are moving, I just bump up the speed and that's it. Although as some of you said, for most uses, such as posting on instagram or sending emails, smaller size files will solve the motion blur issue. And make it a non issue. I suppose. 

Time for me to reconsider things..... maybe..... 

I know, I change my mind a lot. But only idiots don't. The M10R is a great camera. I think that Leica took a step in the right direction, really.... 

Yep - all of the above - nice because it recapitulates my original post. For me I've found I'm happy to use a wider lens because I know I can crop and still have 24mp left!

Great picture of Peter Turnley 

[Jeff S]

3 hours ago, Steven said:

But it's also clear that this lens for example cannot resolve 40mp. 

Roger Cicala explains in the Appendix at the end of this article how pixels come into play between sensor and lens...

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/10/more-ultra-high-resolution-mtf-experiments/

Many here have noticed that the higher resolving sensors typically reveal, rather than destroy, the ‘character’ of a lens.

Cropping ability is similarly one of the advantages of my SL2 over my M10.  Some also appreciate the related ability to print larger (or magnify more on screen), but I keep my prints small(ish) regardless.  If I print the same image at the same (smallish) size with both cameras, IQ differences abate.

Are you friends with Peter?

Jeff

 

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Jeff S

[Jeff S]

1 minute ago, Steven said:

You put it better than me. The higher resolution "reveals" the character of the lens. I noticed it on several of my lenses. I can give you details on demand. 

But you're cropping ability might also get impacted by some lenses' character. On the glowy Steel Rim, for example, if you crop in to much, the image is just too soft and awfully lacks of details. But it doesnt matter. On the 24mp, you don't crop much. So on the 40MP, just dont crop either, but just enjoy the rebirth of your lens. Because it really does reveal and amplifies the character. 

The higher resolving sensors also reveal blur, if cropped and/or displayed at the higher resolution. But we’ve been down that rabbit hole. 😳
 

Jeff

[hdmesa]

7 hours ago, Steven said:

I have really been enjoying testing the M10R again this week. 

One thing I notice is that with older lenses (i.e. my steel rim), the "effects" are amplified with the resolution. It is a good thing. But it's also clear that this lens for example cannot resolve 40mp. By this I mean that even if shot at 1/4000th with no motion blur, cropping in is only possible to some extent before the image is too unsharp. With my 35AA, on the other hand, I can crop massively, and it's a real pleasure. 

I always say I dont need more than 24MP, and I don't, but I've been enjoying a lot the ability to crop in. Especially for quick street photos. It's great to have more reach, and be able to fix the composition without sacrificing quality. Might be one of these things you get used to and become irreversible. 

As far as the colours are concern, I see the M10R a little more flat but nothing you can't "fix" in half a second in post. 

As it's been said many time, the number one advantage for me is the base ISO at 100 + highlight recovery. This is a game changer. I am now much more confident shooting with an M for serious stuff. If stuff ever get serious, which I am not sure they do ! 

And then, there's the issue of the motion blur at slower speeds. It exists, and it's real. But I am now asking myself if I did not make it a bigger problem than it should be the first time around. I obsessed about this and feared it would come with sacrifies, but this week it has been a non issue. At night, I manage to shoot handheld still stuff perfectly sharp at 1/30th. Even managed at 1/15th if needed. And when things are moving, I just bump up the speed and that's it. Although as some of you said, for most uses, such as posting on instagram or sending emails, smaller size files will solve the motion blur issue. And make it a non issue. I suppose. 

Time for me to reconsider things..... maybe..... 

I know, I change my mind a lot. But only idiots don't. The M10R is a great camera. I think that Leica took a step in the right direction, really.... 

Have you tried one of the APO lenses on the M10-R yet, particularly a 50? Addictive beyond measure, and it really is a joy to zoom in on the images. The CV 35 and 50 APO have nearly cured me of my obsession with the pursuit of painterly bokeh. Nearly 😬

[RS-Colo]

29 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Have you tried one of the APO lenses on the M10-R yet, particularly a 50? Addictive beyond measure, and it really is a joy to zoom in on the images. The CV 35 and 50 APO have nearly cured me of my obsession with the pursuit of painterly bokeh. Nearly 😬

Here is a link to my article about the M10-M camera and my trip to the Big Sur area last winter. Yes, I know it's not the M10-R, but I didn't have one back then. At the end of the article there is a link to full sized shots (JPG and RAW) taken with my APO 50mm. To my eyes the APO 50mm can resolve just fine with the M10-M sensor. And the Monochrom is probably more challenging because no Bayer Filter. See what you think.

https://photopxl.com/new-camera-at-big-sur-the-leica-m-10-monochrom/

[Jeff S]

22 minutes ago, RS-Colo said:

Here is a link to my article about the M10-M camera and my trip to the Big Sur area last winter. Yes, I know it's not the M10-R, but I didn't have one back then. At the end of the article there is a link to full sized shots (JPG and RAW) taken with my APO 50mm. To my eyes the APO 50mm can resolve just fine with the M10-M sensor. And the Monochrom is probably more challenging because no Bayer Filter. See what you think.

https://photopxl.com/new-camera-at-big-sur-the-leica-m-10-monochrom/

Thanks for the article link; makes me miss my time living on the west coast.  Just one pedantic point, if I may, regarding the notion of a sensor ‘out-resolving’ a lens. See the Roger Cicala link (the Appendix at end) that I provided above (post#253.)
 

And as I also noted, my experience suggests that higher resolving sensors reveal (often for the better) the character of a lens, rather than destroying it. Older lenses on modern cameras is a popular topic in the various camera sections of the forum.

Jeff

Edited April 1, 2021 by Jeff S

[hdmesa]

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21 minutes ago, RS-Colo said:

Here is a link to my article about the M10-M camera and my trip to the Big Sur area last winter. Yes, I know it's not the M10-R, but I didn't have one back then. At the end of the article there is a link to full sized shots (JPG and RAW) taken with my APO 50mm. To my eyes the APO 50mm can resolve just fine with the M10-M sensor. And the Monochrom is probably more challenging because no Bayer Filter. See what you think.

https://photopxl.com/new-camera-at-big-sur-the-leica-m-10-monochrom/

Beautiful work, thank you for sharing. I know the APO improves acuity for use on a monochrome sensor, but I think the monochrome sensor with the removal of the Bayer array helps increase the resolving power of any given lens — and at wider apertures. The detail I get with my Q2M even at distance and at f/1.7 leaves me dumbfounded at times. 

Although I really like the M10-R, I’ve thought seriously about adding an M10M.

[RS-Colo]

47 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Thanks for the article link; makes me miss my time living on the west coast.  Just one pedantic point, if I may, regarding the notion of a sensor ‘out-resolving’ a lens. See the Roger Cicala link (the Appendix at end) that I provided above (post#253.)
 

And as I also noted, my experience suggests that higher resolving sensors reveal (often for the better) the character of a lens, rather than destroying it. Older lenses on modern cameras is a popular topic in the various camera sections of the forum.

Jeff

Yes, I'm never sure about the resolving power back and forth issues (cameras/lenses). I will say that I have been continually amazed by the "sharpness" of my APO 50mm ever since my first CCD Monochrom. And continue with each new M camera.

[t00l1024]

6 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Although I really like the M10-R, I’ve thought seriously about adding an M10M.

I'm on the other side of the mountain from you. With  a M10M in hand, I've thought seriously about adding a M10-R. I'd love to meet up sometime, but I suspect our wallets would not appreciate it. 😜

[hdmesa]

39 minutes ago, t00l1024 said:

I'm on the other side of the mountain from you. With  a M10M in hand, I've thought seriously about adding a M10-R. I'd love to meet up sometime, but I suspect our wallets would not appreciate it. 😜

If you truly want to be the mirror universe version, get the color Q2 = Q2 + M10M versus Q2M + M10-R. Hah.

[t00l1024]

1 minute ago, hdmesa said:

If you truly want to be the mirror universe version, get the color Q2 = Q2 + M10M versus Q2M + M10-R. Hah.

Hehe. I sold the Q2 for a SL2, each with their own APO 50. Lust over the M10-R, but enough is enough. Or is it?

[hdmesa]

4 minutes ago, t00l1024 said:

Hehe. I sold the Q2 for a SL2, each with their own APO 50. Lust over the M10-R, but enough is enough. Or is it?

I have the R5 with the near-APO RF 50 f/1.2, so I guess enough is not enough 😁

What we really need to confuse the situation is an SL2 Monochrom.

[MarkP]

16 hours ago, Jeff S said:

 

Many here have noticed that the higher resolving sensors typically reveal, rather than destroy, the ‘character’ of a lens.

 

We noticed this when the Monochrom v1came out. There were numerous discussions here about whether it was better with the newer or older lenses.
All lenses were fabulous on it.  It was just that we had not previously had access to a sensor with such performance.

[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, MarkP said:

We noticed this when the Monochrom v1came out. There were numerous discussions here about whether it was better with the newer or older lenses.
All lenses were fabulous on it.  It was just that we had not previously had access to a sensor with such performance.

Indeed. Rinse and repeat with each new generation of higher resolving M bodies.

Jeff

[SoarFM]

11 hours ago, t00l1024 said:

enough is enough. Or is it?

When I update my personal property policy that covers the camera gear and I see the number (total value covered) on the bottom of the page, I know for sure, I have enough. That page is marked “🔥burn after reading🔥.”

Edited April 2, 2021 by SoarFM

[t00l1024]

The correct number of Leica cameras (and lenses) to own is N + 1.

Because this is a M10-R thread... do I need to state the obvious?

[Wonzo]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Steven:

Has anyone tried the “boat recovery experiment” side by side with the M10? 
 

I seem to have missed this experiment. What is it about ?

[elmars]

I did it. In my observation the M10R has one stop more highlight recovery.

 

[Adam Bonn]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

Has anyone tried the “boat recovery experiment” side by side with the M10? 


 

More or less

 

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1703545

Edit

 

ops that wasn’t the test I thought it was, but i’ll leave the link up (and keep looking) as it’s interesting enough imo

Edited September 30, 2021 by Adam Bonn

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[SOHODE]

On 8/21/2020 at 12:12 PM, jonoslack said:

The base ISO of the M10-R already gives you 1 stop advantage (100 vs M10’s 200). In addition to this you can recover a lot more information than you can with the previous M cameras. 

 

Thank you for the comparison! Have you done the same for the shadows detail too? Some people think M10 has one stop to one and half stop better (less noisy) shadows recovery. I also see in some reviews that M10-R picture is noisier than M10 in general. Doesn't that explain Leica just adjusted the exposure curve to pull down the highlights and brighten the midtones and lift the shadows adjusting the black point at the same time in-camera before writing the DNG in M10R? DR charts actually show both cameras DR are very similar.

So I think you could just expose a bit under and then in post process lift midtones and shadows in M10 and get pretty similar result to M10-R. But of course I'm sure Leica does much more than that in their firmware, no doubt.

I'm just wondering if anyone did a comparison for the shadows recovery too?