Good leica m for leica beginner

[Jeff S]

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1 hour ago, analog-digital said:

That's it! US is NOT the world.

The SL is also a choice ....

Would like to see a link to a reputable Leica dealer, with warranty, for a nice M240 (and good non-Leica lens) for equivalent $2500 total. 
 

Jeff

[earleygallery]

14 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

He wants a Leica M!

Here’s a functional M8, and Elmarit-M 28/2.8 for USD 1,880:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-lens-Leitz-Canada-Elmarit-M-f-2-8-28mm/264801425847?hash=item3da76519b7:g:NjgAAOSwOWlfFIrO

I just did one search - I think your goal is achievable, but do you know what you’re getting into?  The Elmarit will give you a 35mm field of view (the M8 has an APS-H sensor).  I haven’t owned one, but people who have had them love them.  Also, look out for an M9 (with the second version sensor replacement).  Get one lens - you have a choice of over 60 years of Leica M mount lenses, and Zeiss and Voigtlander to choose from.

A word of warning, though - you’re embarking on a bit of an adventure - a worthwhile one, in my view, but it’s a steep learning curve ... Also, bear in mind that the rangefinder is best at focal lengths 28-90, no zooms, no telephotos!  If you get bit, prepare yourself for your savings to vanish 😅

Well that's the starting price and until you put a bid in you don't know if the seller has set a higher reserve price.

No response from the OP yet.....

[IkarusJohn]

30 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

Well that's the starting price and until you put a bid in you don't know if the seller has set a higher reserve price.

No response from the OP yet.....

Well, that’s true, but at least it’s an indication that the OP might find something in the price range. That was a 5 seconds eBay search. 

Is the price expectation realistic?  Probably not. Possible?  Apparently so ...
 

[Herr Barnack]

15 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

He wants a Leica M!

Here’s a functional M8, and Elmarit-M 28/2.8 for USD 1,880:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M8-lens-Leitz-Canada-Elmarit-M-f-2-8-28mm/264801425847?hash=item3da76519b7:g:NjgAAOSwOWlfFIrO

I just did one search - I think your goal is achievable, but do you know what you’re getting into?  The Elmarit will give you a 35mm field of view (the M8 has an APS-H sensor).  I haven’t owned one, but people who have had them love them.  Also, look out for an M9 (with the second version sensor replacement).  Get one lens - you have a choice of over 60 years of Leica M mount lenses, and Zeiss and Voigtlander to choose from.

A word of warning, though - you’re embarking on a bit of an adventure - a worthwhile one, in my view, but it’s a steep learning curve ... Also, bear in mind that the rangefinder is best at focal lengths 28-90, no zooms, no telephotos!  If you get bit, prepare yourself for your savings to vanish 😅

We know he wants an M. 

The question is, can he get an M8 or other digital M camera and a lens for it, given his budget?  I hope he can, but it is going to be very tough to do that and stay within his stated budget.

The M8 and 28mm Elmarit you cite on ebay does have a minimum bid of $1880 USD.  Will it sell for that or will the price be driven higher?  My guess is that it will sell for more than that.

The M8 has an 18 x 27 mm (inducing a 1.33 crop factor) which is closer in size to APS-C format.  At 10.3 mp, it would not be the best choice for print making, if a person were inclined to make prints at 8x10 in. or larger and wanted exhibit quality prints. 

Still, the M8 would be a reasonably good starting point in the M system.  The issue was and still is @reniwqwil5's budget constraints.

 

EDIT:  Just checked and this camera and lens ended up selling for $1905 USD +$30 shipping, which is within OP's 1,900€ ($2214 USD) budget.  Maybe another such opportunity will present itself on the bay...

Edited July 26, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[reniwqwil5]

  

On 7/25/2020 at 11:40 PM, Good To Be Retired said:

You're looking at a brand where the empty box goes for $100.  Stick with Sony. 

Assuming you can locate something within your budget you'll still have to put a lens on it.  

And whatever you get within that budget, you'll want to upgrade from the time you take it out of the box.  Not particularly as a result of what you purchased, it's just the way it is with Leica's

Having said that, go to eBay and start looking at the M8 and the M9.  If you find an M, it would be good if it had the original sensor replaced, as some of the originals experienced difficultiesappvalley tutuapp tweakbox

 

 

On 7/26/2020 at 12:40 AM, BlackBarn said:

I’m fairly certain it’s not the camera which ‘ups the skills’  unless you consider Leica may be a camera which encourages you to engage with photography more and therefore a catalyst for upping your skills. Cameras, regardless of make, can do that and in different ways.
 

Assuming you have identified the skills you would like to improve on I would suggest funding the education not the camera route first. If you feel the Leica must come first then possibly hire/borrow one to see if the expectations match. If it does....be patient....something should come along.

 

If you've never used a manual camera, you should get a Leica M6 so you can still have an in-camera Meter. Otherwise look at the M4 as the 'easiest to use' Leica M. As a good 'beginner' lens, get a 50mm Summicron. Any of them; as long as they're in clean condition they're all great.

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by reniwqwil5

[Herr Barnack]

Yes, an M6 would be a good choice, as they have a built in light meter and the M6es are beautiful cameras.  If you are willing to go with an analog M, an M6 will be more affordable than a digital M. 

I recommended the M4-P which does not have a built in light meter because they tend to cost less than the M6.  A hand held meter can be had for $100-150 or so on ebay.

Here's wishing you the best of luck on your search for your first M camera.  😊

Edited July 26, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[Ko.Fe.]

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If you save little more, you'll be able to get M240 and Jupiter-12 lens costs next to nothing. This is heck a lot of the M with classic rangefinder lens,. Or you could get classic M9. 

Leica lenses are totally optional and could be added later on. Where are cost effective made in China M lenses and good quality Viogtlander made by Cosina in Japan lenses. You are not going to see much if any difference between Color Skopar 35 2.5 and much more expensive Leica/Leitz lens on digital M.

[cboy]

OP- Why would you use a leica m for milkway photography? Nature i understand but milkyway photography might hamper you with the m system. 

Why not adapt ur sony with a leica lens to get the best of both worlds

All the best

[Albert Ma]

Also a Sony shooter. Began use an M10 less than a year ago. My first advice is double your budget if you want to get into Leica. May be sell some Sony lens you don’t use as often? Or one of the kidneys? Don’t go too old, may be a M9 or M240. You won’t regret changing to Leica because my entire Sony kit has rarely been touched since I switched over. And your first lens has to be Leica, because the camera is body, the lenses is the soul of Leica. 

[Mikep996]

I loved my M6 - it was my favorite film camera BUT I wouldn't recommend buying a film camera.  It's way too much hassle for "nowadays"  UNLESS the OP specifically wants to get into film.  Nothing wrong with that, of course, just like some folks enjoy playing records instead of streaming music.  But unless already experienced with film and liking it, I wouldn't spend M6 money to get that experience.

[Ste_S]

On 7/25/2020 at 8:16 PM, reniwqwil5 said:

Hello everybody, I have photographed alot til this day with a sony camera (alot of nature and milkyway photography) and have decided to up my skills and photography to leica cameras, specificly the leica m-body. I have a budget of up to 1,900€, so i'm pretty limited on the budget side of things. I hope you guys can offer me your advice on this topic, thank you beforehand!

Buy a used M-mount lens and an adapter for your Sony, and shoot the Sony on manual. See if that style of shooting works for you. If not you can sell the lens for probably the same amount you paid for it.

I wouldn't bother with a M8, your entry point for a digital M body is a 240 or 262

[lasousa]

A Leica is not a camera to buy from thinking it will make better imagery.  You can make equally good imagery with any modern digital camera.  I shoot my Leica for lots of different reasons.  I like its simplicity and quality build.  I love the native Leica lenses as well as third party lenses from Voigtlander and Zeiss.  I would say the primary reason is I enjoy a union with the camera after gaining an understanding of how to get it to say what i want it to. A rangefinder does have its limitations like any other camera.  I am getting older and at times I have difficulty focusing accurately now, but that is rare.  It's not a camera to shoot auto races or birds in flight.  The Sony you have is much more versatile.   I agree that in your budget and apparent inexperience with rangefinders, it is better to start with a film camera.  I would only buy one from a reputable shop.  An M3 is a wonderful camera, but it is old.  Servicing mine cost me a good deal of money (Youxin Ye).  A good condition M3 and a Leica lens will probably exceed your budget.  Consider going with a Voigtlander Bessa M mount body, and supplement that one of the new Voigtlander M mount lenses (50 1.2 or 35 1.4 or 50 1.5) for the best bang for your buck.   If you enjoy the experience you can sell the Body for what you paid and keep the lens for use on a digital M if and when you can afford it.  Coming from a Sony system, the M240 is the baseline for you in my opinion.   Anything prior will disappoint you even though the image quality will be very good.  Just my two cents.

[rramesh]

On 7/26/2020 at 3:16 AM, reniwqwil5 said:

... a lot of nature and milkyway photography

• For nature, you will most likely need macro and use of long lenses. Maybe even with autofocus and zoom if birding and/or animal photography is needed.
• For milky way photography, long exposures would be a must.

In either of these scenarios, a Leica M would be less than ideal. Try a Nikon or Sony mirrorless, or even a Fuji. It would also fit your budget better.

Your budget is barely sufficient for a beat-up M8 or M9 and it will leave you with no money to spare for a Leica lens. Of course, you could always start with film Leicas.

It would be more prudent to get a good Leica M lens (older Elmars, Summarits, Summicrons) and use it with a Fuji or mirrorless body with an M mount adapter. This will allow you to enjoy the Leica lens on a reasonably good digital body. 

When you can afford it, then look to getting a good used Leica digitial camera.

Edited September 29, 2020 by rramesh

[Reini]

An M is ideal for street, landscape, portrait etc. with that certain Leica fun factor and the typical handling. M8 IR filter? Other filters are more useful for Astro. M9 sensor new? Enough MB? If then at least one M240. Then you need lenses, close-up lenses, extension rings, EVF ...

[erniethemilk]

M8’s on eBay can be bought for around £1200 GBP so within the OP’s budget if he works hard to get a bargain basement lens. 

The decision is if the M8 is an acceptable choice for him, but it is do-able. 

[poli]

On 7/25/2020 at 9:16 PM, reniwqwil5 said:

Hello everybody, I have photographed alot til this day with a sony camera (alot of nature and milkyway photography) and have decided to up my skills and photography to leica cameras, specificly the leica m-body. I have a budget of up to 1,900€, so i'm pretty limited on the budget side of things. I hope you guys can offer me your advice on this topic, thank you beforehand!

Three years ago i bought an M8 plus Summicron 50 for €1.500. It was in excellent condition. I dont know where you are located, but it seems to be Europe, since hou are talking euro’s. I think 1.900 is do-able. And to see if you enjoy photography with a Leica M, the M8 is not a bad choice and easy to sell again without much loss. I have sold my M8 last year for €1.200. Which i sometimes regret. But i still have the Summicron 50. 

[RayD28]

I don't see a response from the OP about film vs digital.  Going from a Sony (or any digital) requires patience to see your results, even if you home develop.  Given the OP's budget it might be a strain to buy film and pay for processing or acquire a home developing kit and scanner.  

Used M240s are now in the mid to upper $2,500 range and I expect them to drop even more.  Tamarkin has one for $2,800 and it comes with a one-year warranty.  Not knocking the M8s but if digital is required the OP should expand his budget.

Ray

 

[poli]

It seems the OP didn't visit the forum anymore since end of July. So we were all friendly enough to offer some help and thinking along. But he/she never came back....

[jjvornov]

I always hesitate to say this, but if you buy any Leica used equipment at a good price and care for it, you can turn around and sell it for not too much less (more in some cases for lenses over time). So actual cost of use isn't too bad, it's the initial cash investment to buy into the system original. 

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[Jeff S]

4 hours ago, poli said:

It seems the OP didn't visit the forum anymore since end of July. So we were all friendly enough to offer some help and thinking along. But he/she never came back....

And the last post (#25) made no sense to me...two member quotes and a final paragraph that appears to be more advice to the OP.

Jeff