Got my second M-A and it's a little different

[logan2z]

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4 hours ago, Axelwik said:

Nothing is immune, but comparing a brand new camera that costs upwards of $5K to something that's 40, 50, or 60 years old doesn't bode well for the new camera. These cameras have to be cleaned and serviced once every several years, but a new one shouldn't have any issues.

I completely agree, my only point was that if you want to buy a camera that is free of issues then buying a 40, 50, 60 year old model may not be the best way to go.  At least the new camera will have a warranty that will cover the cost of a repair.  But of course the repair of a brand new camera shouldn't be necessary.  

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[Axelwik]

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

I completely agree, my only point was that if you want to buy a camera that is free of issues then buying a 40, 50, 60 year old model may not be the best way to go.  At least the new camera will have a warranty that will cover the cost of a repair.  But of course the repair of a brand new camera shouldn't be necessary.  

On the other hand the price of an older camera plus service and any repairs needed will be much less money than a new one, and will likely operate a little smoother. A well broken in Leica that gets regular service is a wonderful thing. 

[Börje Norhager]

The two camera bodies I already have, the M6 (0.72) since year 2016, and the M4 Anniversary 50, bought 2019 will suffice for now. The third one,  a M4-P 1913-1983 Anniversary model (which I now am about to return), I’ll have to do without.

Both my other Leica bodies I have bought over the counter in a dealer’s shop, and was then able to physically inspect the item before deciding to buy or not.

Anyway, it has been an useful experience to encounter these problems on an eBay purchase - and  as a Leica M ”rookie” since 2016, I am learning every day and I also enjoy exchanging info and thoughts on this Leica community!

/BN

[kivis]

On 7/23/2020 at 4:36 PM, 01af said:

That's no information. It is just some rant.

Yes—there's some problems with quality control. I bought a Leica M-A in 2015, and I kept replacing it until the third one. The first had an issue with the film transport (today I wish I had it fixed rather than replaced). The second had an issue with the film frame window; one of the corners wasn't perfectly straight. And yet, I am so happy with my decision to buy an M-A (or Emma, as I prefer to call her). The third body is close to perfect—the frame counter won't advance beyond 38, but that's it. I absolutely love this camera. I contemplated buying an M3, or M2, or M4, or M4-P, or M6, or MP ... but today I couldn't be happier than with my current-production old-style Leica M-A. It's a singular camera. It is ... magic.

If you order one, order it via a dependable Leica dealer and be prepared for some drama. Return the camera if something is wrong. Repeat until satisfied. In the end, you will absolutely love the final result.

I had an issue with my M-A lens mount. Took it back to Leica Miami and found out the problem was a non Leica lens (Voigtlander). Josh at the Leica store said if it had to send back the M-A to Leica, he would just give me a new one. BTW, Stephan Gandy at Camera Quest gave me a new Voight lens to replace the original even though there was "nothing" wrong with it. I stick to authorized dealers.

[IkarusJohn]

My SL died very shortly after I bought it.  The dealer handed over their demo camera immediately, no questions asked.

The issue isn’t defects (ever manufacturer will have defects from time to time).  It’s how they deal with them that counts.  My M-A has been defect free since I bought it (said purely for balance - I’m sure the majority of M-A owners are happy, they just don’t need to complain about it).

[earleygallery]

9 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

My SL died very shortly after I bought it.  The dealer handed over their demo camera immediately, no questions asked.

The issue isn’t defects (ever manufacturer will have defects from time to time).  It’s how they deal with them that counts.  My M-A has been defect free since I bought it (said purely for balance - I’m sure the majority of M-A owners are happy, they just don’t need to complain about it).

Well, they should have given you another new camera not an ex demo!

[IkarusJohn]

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Just now, earleygallery said:

Well, they should have given you another new camera not an ex demo!

They did, when they got one in.

[MikeMyers]

Thanks for deflating my balloon.   I've pretty much decided to go with my M3 and M2 anyway, rather than spending around $5K for an M-A, but I would have assumed that a brand new M-A would be thoroughly tested, with minimal chance of having "issues".  Maybe the components aren't as good.  Maybe the assemblers aren't as good.  Maybe I should forget about buying a copy of what used to be such a wonderful design.  Sadly, I pretty much gave up on my idea of purchasing a new M-A, but what I've read here may have been the final straw.   

I had assumed that a brand new M-A would be sort of like a "new and improved M3".  Now I think the M3/M2 are as good as it gets, and nobody knows how to replicate them - not to mention the viewfinder of my M3 is beyond awesome.  How does that saying go.....   "They don't make 'em like they used to."

[Mute-on]

1 hour ago, MikeMyers said:

 How does that saying go.....   "They don't make 'em like they used to."

They sure don’t!  
 

For less than half the cost of an M-A you could get both your M2 and M3 completely overhauled with new shutter curtains and repair or replacement of basically anything else that was even close to failing. In reality, a standard CLA is probably all either camera will ever need, costing far, far less again. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Mute-on

[MikeMyers]

Good idea.  Both seem to be working well, but I think I'll send them, one at a time, to DAG.  I'll leave it up to Don to decide what they each need.  The only obvious damage is there is a piece of the "leather" wrapping on my M2 that has been missing for going on 60 years or so.  It annoys me, but I ignore it.  Neither has had any attention in over half a century.  Thank you - I will write Don and ask if I should just send them, one at a time, now, or wait a while.  There's no "hurry".

It annoys me what people write about the shutter release on the M-A.  Both my M3 and my M2 have the smoothest shutter release imaginable.  I've never noticed any issue with my M10, so I don't understand why the M-A would have this issue at all.

[Vlad Soare]

26 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

It annoys me what people write about the shutter release on the M-A.  

What's wrong with the shutter release? Mine's as smooth as silk.
Granted, I've never handled an M3. Whether the M3 is even smoother, making the M-A feel clunky by comparison... I don't know. I guess it could be, though frankly I kind of doubt it.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Vlad Soare

[MikeMyers]

3 minutes ago, Vlad Soare said:

What's wrong with the shutter release? Mine's as smooth as silk.

I can't find it now, but I've read in these forums that the shutter release on the M-A wasn't that smooth.  I don't remember when or where I read it, but it was more than once.  I just went through this thread, and couldn't find it.   Maybe that was just one specific camera, and it isn't an issue with the M-A.  I definitely remember reading it, as it sounded so strange to me, but if you guys aren't aware of this, I'll forget about it as being an "issue".

I just compared my M2 to my M10 - no difference.  Both are (to use your words) "smooth as silk".

[Matlock]

51 minutes ago, Vlad Soare said:

What's wrong with the shutter release? Mine's as smooth as silk.
Granted, I've never handled an M3. Whether the M3 is even smoother, making the M-A feel clunky by comparison... I don't know. I guess it could be, though frankly I kind of doubt it.

 

 

My M-A shutter release is smoother than my M3 (sadly no longer repairable) but then the M3 is over 65 years old.

[logan2z]

34 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

I can't find it now, but I've read in these forums that the shutter release on the M-A wasn't that smooth.  I don't remember when or where I read it, but it was more than once.  I just went through this thread, and couldn't find it.   Maybe that was just one specific camera, and it isn't an issue with the M-A.  I definitely remember reading it, as it sounded so strange to me, but if you guys aren't aware of this, I'll forget about it as being an "issue".

I just compared my M2 to my M10 - no difference.  Both are (to use your words) "smooth as silk".

Zero issues with the shutter release on my M-A, just as 'smooth' (whatever that means, exactly) as the one on my M4.

You're always going to read of issues on forums like this - this is where people come to complain (and then mostly disappear).

There are lots of happy M-A owners here and on other forums that have no issues with their cameras.  I wouldn't let a few reported issues dissuade me from purchasing a new M-A/MP.  

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by logan2z

[Matlock]

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

You're always going to read of issues on forums like this - this is where people come to complain (and then mostly disappear).

 

That is so true. Rather like the person a few months ago that suggested that Leica were a c... firm that only produced rubbish. He promptly disappeared from the forum after, I suppose, feeling that he had made his point.

[MikeMyers]

Well, I guess I need to be more cautious before accepting an individual's problems with a "defect" in the camera.  Perhaps if I buy a new M-A, it will be just as good as my M3, or maybe I should compare to my M2.  I don't remember the selling price for the M3 when it came out, but apparently it was so expensive it was hard for people to afford one.  I guess I could afford to buy one now, if I get serious enough about film, but to be honest, I haven't found a single advantage compared to just using my M3, and the M3 has a better viewfinder if I go back to "seeing" in a 50mm format.  I've gotten so used to 35mm that 50 feels (to me) like a telephoto.  I know that's not true, and I grew up with 50.

As suggested earlier, I will probably be best off if I send my M3, then my M2, to Don at DAG, and ask him do do whatever he thinks needs to be done.  I'll probably end up with over $4K in my pocket, with which I could buy a newer lens if I wanted to.  Thanks to all of you - I think I learned more about the M-A in this one thread than in the previous many years.

(There is still a part of me that feels a built-in meter would be more practical than the M-A.  I now have a choice of a latest model Leicameter, a small Sekonic, a large Sekonic, or if it still works, my Gossen LunaPro.  It's not like the digital Leica cameras, that are constantly being updated with a new something-or-other.......   Thank you all!)  

[28framelines]

43 minutes ago, Matlock said:

That is so true. Rather like the person a few months ago that suggested that Leica were a c... firm that only produced rubbish. He promptly disappeared from the forum after, I suppose, feeling that he had made his point.

This person who you are probably referencing almost convinced me not to buy my dream camera (an MP) a couple months ago - I’m really not kidding. I decided to pull the trigger, and I can say now, I’m a happy MP owner who has experienced only happy times with this beautiful Black Paint camera!

I really hate to say this, but I wonder sometimes if some of the stuff complained about in these forums are just so nitpicky because (again, I’m talking equally about myself as anyone else) if you can afford a Leica or 5, you probably are used to a pretty cushy life; any little detail/imperfection (see: thing that was made by human hands and not a machine that’s more accurate) just isn’t good enough. Like, sure an M2/M3 works like a dream, but that does not mean an M-A/MP cannot. I just can’t imagine a company somehow not having the same issues back then as they do now, but the “they don’t make em like they used to” in this case is referring to us, not the camera, as it seems like as a culture, in many places, we’ve become less patient due to increased pace/social media/etc. so any issue we see is a complete inconvenience and must be a case of “they don’t make these like they used to”

that’s my 2 cents, and that’s the reason I ultimately chose to buy an MP anyway. And heck, if there are any issues, well, I’ve got years of warranty.

EDIT: I want to be clear that this is not a criticism of anyone in this thread, including OP. More of a general observation.

Edited August 26, 2021 by 28framelines

[Vlad Soare]

If there are issues, that's what the warranty is for. But on the other hand, sending a newly bought (and expensive) camera abroad and having to wait for weeks, or even months, for it to return isn't exactly something to look forward to. It's good to have a warranty, but unpleasant to have to use it.

My M-A had just two minor imperfections, none of which was severe enough to warrant a trip back to the factory. It works perfectly and is butter-smooth in operation. It feels like a proper Leica. That's all that matters.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Vlad Soare

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[paddycook]

11 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

I can't find it now, but I've read in these forums that the shutter release on the M-A wasn't that smooth.  I don't remember when or where I read it, but it was more than once.  I just went through this thread, and couldn't find it.   Maybe that was just one specific camera, and it isn't an issue with the M-A.  I definitely remember reading it, as it sounded so strange to me, but if you guys aren't aware of this, I'll forget about it as being an "issue".

I just compared my M2 to my M10 - no difference.  Both are (to use your words) "smooth as silk".

The shutter release on my M-A is perfect - much better than the release on my MP.