Minimising equipment - M10 buying advice

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On 7/21/2020 at 4:00 PM, sanadsaad said:

Hi guys. I want your advice. Having gone through Nikon and Fuji, I sold all my kit and ended up buying an S1R with a 24-90 and a Leica M240 with a 50mm summicron (type 4) and a 35mm Zeiss Biogon 2.8. I wanted to use both and see what I settle with. I found myself shooting more and more with the M over the last year or so. I thought I would use the S1R more but I find myself picking it up less and less.The problem I'm facing is the weight of the kit. I am thinking of selling the S1R, 24-90 and M240 and pick up an M10-P or R. The other option would be to sell the heavy 24-90 and pick up a 35mm summicron SL instead. It's lighter, maybe I will use the S1R more if I use a lighter lens? Id appreciate your thoughts. 

 

 

You know, i been through a similar journey myself. Last week I dumped my entire Fuji Xt3 kit. What I have right now is M10 with WATE, 35 f2, 50 1.4, 90 2.8 and i plan to buy a 135 3.4 from the fuji money. The reason i had been to fuji, sony, canon and nikon was because, my use of my camera changed and i would easily get bored and think there is something better out there. I found myself carrying my m10 more than anything else. I would always prepare for a what if scenario thats how i ended up with all those kits while having a range finder kit. 

I would invest more in the lenses vs the body. The price of used body keeps on dropping every year. If you look at lenses, not so much. They tend to remain constant. I did not get much money for my Zeiss 28. If you can, then save up and pile up on M glass. It will always work on in your favor. Once borders open up and i start traveling more, ill buy a A7ii or 3 whichever one is running on a special for Long exposures and essentially sensor abuse type scenarios. I am like you, i find more use out of my M than any other camera as it does not scream ' hey i am carrying a camera ' My 2 cents. 

I recommend you run a few kit scenarios and just invest in 1 system. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 8/2/2020 at 10:04 AM, sanadsaad said:

Another trip to the Leica store presented a less traumatic option. I’m thinking of selling the S1R and it’s accessories which should get me enough to buy a decent Leica SL (with a little top up). I get my “M” fix with the 240 and I get to use the SL with my 24-90/M lenses to see how I feel about the SL camera line. Gives me time to play around with both systems. I really did enjoy the simplicity of the SL and with those second hand prices, it’s a tantalising option. 

The SL is a fine camera. But an SL2 it is not. So much changed internally and externally that they're distant cousins at best. And you're dropping your high resolution option. Maybe you don't need the 47MP?

It appears you like the M system. And the M10P or R is the digital pinnacle of that system. So if you can be happy with primes, lenses between 16 and 135mm and you don't need AF or IBIS or video than go for it. And you can add the EVF and a couple of R zooms if you need them. You only live once.

S1R's are already dropping in price. You'll be able to pick one up second hand with ease. There's no real harm in selling it and re-acquiring one if the M10R doesn't work out. It seems like the 24-90 needs to go regardless. you don't want to carry it.

You can shoot simple off camera TTL flash with the SF60 and controller. Or you can do wireless manual flash with a variety of systems (Godox, Elinchrom, ProFoto etc..). No flash and EVF at the same time though.

I would go for what gives you the most satisfaction and build that kit as far as you can. Then, if there are holes possibly something as simple as possible that fills those holes.

Gordon

[Dennis]

My advice: Keep the S1R, sell all the lenses you have for it, and get a small prime 35mm. It would be your EVF/tilting display/47MP camera kit that you may/want need in some situations. Sell your M240, and get a M10P. And the world will remember of your photographs 🙌 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Dennis

[Tailwagger]

3 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

So if you can be happy with primes, lenses between 16 and 135mm

I'd add that if you're willing to entertain glass from other manufacturers, native optics as wide as 9mm are available as well. 

5 minutes ago, Dennis said:

 Sell your M240, and get a M10P.

Spoken like a man who has yet to shoot with a 10-R. 🙂

[Dennis]

11 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

I'd add that if you're willing to entertain glass from other manufacturers, native optics as wide as 9mm are available as well. 

Spoken like a man who has yet to shoot with a 10-R. 🙂

haha. That's right. But he has already a 47MP, I think he doesn't need another big resolution camera. Great power come with great responsibilities ...

[Herr Barnack]

If you like the M system and want to minimize your gear, I say sell everything you currently have and replace it with either an M10-R or an M10 Monochrom (if you lean heavily toward B&W) and two lenses:  A 28mm Summicron and a 50mm Summicron.

JMHO.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[Tailwagger]

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1 minute ago, Dennis said:

haha. That's right. But he has already a 47MP, I think he doesn't need another big resolution camera. Great power come with great responsibilities ...

As someone lucky enough to have a day one M10-R (and traded an M10 and M240 in the process),  I'd say the added pixels are only a part of the story. The rendering is quite different to the previous generation. Not the gulf from M9 to 240, but noticeable. Give one a spin at some point and see if you agree. I happen to prefer the look generated by the 10-R, but I wouldn't fault anyone for seeing it the other way around. Regardless, for me, owning the R along side the SL2 takes any considerations around final print size, acuity, ability to crop, etc, out of the equation all together and allows me to simply consider the best approach and lens for the job. They provide very different looks and shooting experiences that compliment each other very well.

[earleygallery]

I think the answer is to sell everything you have and buy a CL kit instead - benefits of both systems (automation of the SL and compactness of the M). 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

10 hours ago, Dennis said:

haha. That's right. But he has already a 47MP, I think he doesn't need another big resolution camera. Great power come with great responsibilities ...

nicely written. Made me smile.

I actually wasn't using my M10 because of the 24MP count and carrying my larger SL2 or S1R when i wanted a smaller lighter simpler system. The M10R is my perfect M along with my M10M. i also really like I'm getting all the benefits of an M10P. I missed not having a touch screen on the M10.

I often print larger than A2, so I might be the exception to the rule but 40-50MP are the only cameras I use unless I am REALLY sure I won't be printing.

Gordon

Edited August 4, 2020 by FlashGordonPhotography

[Dennis]

3 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I often print larger than A2, so I might be the exception to the rule but 40-50MP are the only cameras I use unless I am REALLY sure I won't be printing.

it makes totally sense. 

In my case, I have only 20 and 24MP cameras. I don't usually print. So, I'm fine. But when I do, I'm fine too with the quality. Of course, more MP, better IQ for the final print. But I'm fine with what I get.

 

[sanadsaad]

22 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I would go for what gives you the most satisfaction and build that kit as far as you can. Then, if there are holes possibly something as simple as possible that fills those holes.

Gordon

You make an excellent point. I’ve tried Nikon D700, Fuji XT1 and 2, Leica M3, M240 and Panasonic S1R. I didn’t enjoy shooting with the SLR, loved the manual control Fuji offered but then when I used the Leica M, it became my zen camera. I’ve never shot with the SL system but the design philosophy of Leica resonates with me. If I’m being totally honest with myself and my shooting style, I’d go with an M10M. My wife loves colour portraits though so M10-R would be what I’d lean towards if I go one camera system. Is there a difference in M10-R pics converted to b&w vs M10-M? I asked my wife (doesn’t know a thing about cameras, especially their prices) about the whole dilemma and she says “Whatever you do, don’t sell the Leica. I love the pics you take with it” :) that’s the objective testing done! 

[IkarusJohn]

Interesting.  This morning, I decided to ditch my SL system - not because there’s anything wrong with it, just I realise I don’t really need the lens range, zooms etc, and actually, I prefer the M system. 

[scroy]

One item from the Peter Karbe interview with Leica Singapore that resonated with me was that if the lenses are good enough (50 -60 lp/mm)  as the sensor resolution increases, you can use fewer lenses as cropping enables you to get multiple usable field of views when printing.  I see that today with my SL2+35/75mm SL-Summicrons and that's why I'm interested in  M10R/M10M to go with likely a fewer number of M-lenses when traveling. 

 

[paulsydaus]

On 7/21/2020 at 5:00 PM, sanadsaad said:

Hi guys. I want your advice. Having gone through Nikon and Fuji, I sold all my kit and ended up buying an S1R with a 24-90 and a Leica M240 with a 50mm summicron (type 4) and a 35mm Zeiss Biogon 2.8. I wanted to use both and see what I settle with. I found myself shooting more and more with the M over the last year or so. I thought I would use the S1R more but I find myself picking it up less and less.The problem I'm facing is the weight of the kit. I am thinking of selling the S1R, 24-90 and M240 and pick up an M10-P or R. The other option would be to sell the heavy 24-90 and pick up a 35mm summicron SL instead. It's lighter, maybe I will use the S1R more if I use a lighter lens? Id appreciate your thoughts. 

 

 

If you’re a casual non professional like me, I’m not surprised you gravitate towards the smaller and lighter option.  One of the reasons I still prefer the M is size/weight...  a far more inviting prospect to carry around.

[sanadsaad]

Well, that’s that. Sold the M240, 24-90,S1R, extra batteries and grip for S1R. Kept the Leica 50 summicron (type 4), 35mm Zeiss Biogon 2.8 and M adapter T. Decisions, decisions.....

[sanadsaad]

Update: Didn’t get a good deal on the SL lens so I sold the cameras but kept the lenses.  a barely used SL to test the SL and M lenses and see if I like the handling and shooting experience. Absolutely loving the simplicity and the files coming out of it are gorgeous. Shot 2 year old nephews the other day and everyone loved the photos. The colours, the micro contrast, the subject separation from background, the film like grain in higher ISO - I’m extremely pleased with it. I especially loved the ergonomics. Everything is so well placed and thought out. I’m thinking of using this combo and swapping for M lenses when I want to travel. Shoot like this for a year or so, save up and then get an M10-R to complement the SL. 

[vinicio]

I am discovering, once again, the beauty of the Tri Elmar 28-50-35 coupled to my M10-P...

small gear for majority of situation or for a daily use; in different situation I normally have the 35mcron ASPH and 50 lux or 75 cron

[analog-digital]

Am 21.7.2020 um 23:00 schrieb sanadsaad:

Hi guys. I want your advice. Having gone through Nikon and Fuji, I sold all my kit and ended up buying an S1R with a 24-90 and a Leica M240 with a 50mm summicron (type 4) and a 35mm Zeiss Biogon 2.8. I wanted to use both and see what I settle with. I found myself shooting more and more with the M over the last year or so. I thought I would use the S1R more but I find myself picking it up less and less.The problem I'm facing is the weight of the kit. I am thinking of selling the S1R, 24-90 and M240 and pick up an M10-P or R. The other option would be to sell the heavy 24-90 and pick up a 35mm summicron SL instead. It's lighter, maybe I will use the S1R more if I use a lighter lens? Id appreciate your thoughts. 

 

 

Why not a handy, lightweight Q?

[martinot]

On 8/2/2020 at 2:04 AM, sanadsaad said:

Another trip to the Leica store presented a less traumatic option. I’m thinking of selling the S1R and it’s accessories which should get me enough to buy a decent Leica SL (with a little top up). I get my “M” fix with the 240 and I get to use the SL with my 24-90/M lenses to see how I feel about the SL camera line. Gives me time to play around with both systems. I really did enjoy the simplicity of the SL and with those second hand prices, it’s a tantalising option. 

Good call. I think a rangefinder and a mirrorless is very different cameras, and one does not replace the other. Great to have access to both type of cameras! 

M lenses will always best to use on M bodies I think (and native autofocus lenses best on mirrorless bodies).

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[sanadsaad]

Reviving this thread after more than a year for a quick question. Firstly, the SL was sold. I picked up an M6 and a Nikon FM3A and shot film for a year. I gravitated most towards the 35mm focal length (Leica) and the 85mm for portraits (Nikon). Seeing the black friday deal on the M10-R made me think the time might be right to go digital again. Its bundled with a leather half case a battery for 6900. Not on the black colour variant though. Also, the 35mm Apo Summicron is in stock. Should I go for the M10-R with 35mm APO (adding a tele for portraits later) or get a 35 non APO summicron and a 75/90 summicron instead? Aim is to purely use the film camera for black and white and the M10-R for colour. I thought a lot about the SL2 but I dont see myself carrying that everywhere. The deal on the TL2 with 18/35/60 lenses for £3999 looked tantalising though.