A fast 35mm partner for my ZM 2.8/35

[Dennis]

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Hi guys

I talked before on this forum about my desire to switch entirely to the M-system for my work. I love to use my M10 for street photography, pictures of my family, travels, architecture, and daily life. And I would like to use it also for my storytelling work. I really believe it could be a perfect fit for me. I'm still studying the pros and cons, logistics, etc. But I do have a clear image in my mind of what I would love to do and the tools I would need. So here, I'm asking you for your valuable feedback about some 35mm options. At the moment, I have the 2.8/35 ZM Biogon. The point is that 90% of the times, f/2.8 is fast enough, because the M10 has excellent performance at high ISO. But sometimes I need more, and I underexpose a couple of stops wishing than in PP I can recovery well the scene. I shoot almost 100% available light for my work, and I would love to keep doing it. But I would like to add an affordable 35 companion for my Zeiss. A fast lens. Let's say that during an event, I would shoot most with the 35 ZM. Only when I need a faster aperture because the very low light, or when I want a shallow DOP for an artistic effect, I would choose the other 35. 

For what I have found around the web, and reading your feedbacks here, these are my options in no particular order:

1. Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f/1.2 Aspherical III - $1,050
2. Voigtlander Ultron 35mm f/1.7 Aspherical - $670
3. Voigtlander Nokton Classic 35mm f/1.4 II MC - $600
4. Voigtlander Ultron 35mm f/2 Aspherical - $700
5. TTArtisan 35mm f/1.4 - $450

I can say that with f/2 should be fine. But if it's faster, of course, better. My requirements:

• I'm not a pixel peeper, but I do like sharp modern lenses. I don't want to buy a lens that wide open is very soft, it doesn't make sense for me. I can live with a small vignette or slight color shift, but not soft glow images, please. Especially if the primary purpose of the new 35 lenses it to shoot wider than f/2.8. Being the 35 FL essential for me, to tell stories, it would be great to have a second one as back up. And if it performs well after 2.8 (obviously) it is more than welcome. It could be also the first option for travels, who knows.
• I'm don't care about size and weight because I'll not use it all day long. Small and light is always better, but the priority is IQ
• I want to buy a NEW lens, not used. My budget is $1,050, Max
• This is not mandatory, but it would be great. I would love to DIY 6-bit coding the lens if the flange allows me to do it. If I can't, no problem.

You have these lenses, you tried them, you know the limitations and the IQ rendering. According to my needs, which lens you think is your favorite option for me?

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[astrostl]

Save up another $1250 and go for the ZEISS Distagon 35/1.4 ZM 👀 😅

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[Dennis]

7 minutes ago, astrostl said:

Save up another $1250 and go for the ZEISS Distagon 35/1.4 ZM 👀 😅

I know is one of the best out there. But the viewfinder blockage is too much. And It goes out of the budget. For $2,300 I would probably find a used Summicron. But this will be for the future, not in a short term. Right now, I want another affordable lens, cause I'm fine with the 2.8/35 ZM up tp 2.8

Edited June 26, 2020 by Dennis

[jakontil]

If u need the extra stops, with modern looks, and yeah live with the blockage, distagon zm is the way to go

[Cobram]

Minolta M Rokkor 40 - if you can live with old lens in like new condition.

Every time  I read a topic related to 35mm lenses I regret my decision to sold it.

 

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I'm  not sure f2 is going to make a lot of difference from f2.8.

I have Nokton 35 1.4 II for light where my Summarit-M 35 2.5 can't deliver. Or just to keep it on M-E because Summarit-M 35 2.5 is best lens I ever used on my M4-2.

f1.4 1/45

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F2 1/24

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f2.8 1/12

All three are handheld.

Street and else alive you should consider what with f2.8 you'll still catch something moving (DOF). f2 and wider is going to be for static objects. Correction, one object and better in the middle.

I have noticed what with Summarit-M 35 2.5 I have good portraits inside with f2.5 and 1/30.

M-E maxed out on ISO 2500 and Summarit-M 35 f2.5 wide open. 1/45.

If I would have M10, I won't even bother with buying of 35 1.2,1.4, f2 lens.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Ko.Fe.

[Anakronox]

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I would go for one of the Voigtlander aspherical lenses if you want to mostly match the rendering of your Biogon.  I own and sometimes shoot the Ultron f/2 and it’s a great little lens.  I have also owned the 50 Nokton f/1.5 that shares the same style focusing ring as the Ultron 35 f/1.7.  I didn’t care for that ring.  The Ultron f/2 has a little focus stick that’s not bad.  I like the rendering of the Ultron f/2 as well - it’s sharp wide open and has pretty good bokeh, though just a touch busy but not distracting.  I don’t shoot is as much since I got my Summilux 35 FLE, but maybe I should!

[Dennis]

54 minutes ago, Cobram said:

Minolta M Rokkor 40

I never heard about it. What is so special about this lens? I'm curious

15 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

If I would have M10, I won't even bother with buying of 35 1.2,1.4, f2 lens.

One point for the Nokton 35 1.4 II, great.

The M10 is great for high ISO I know, but sometimes I shoot in really low-light condition, and all I need all the help is possible.

9 minutes ago, Anakronox said:

I would go for one of the Voigtlander aspherical

Does the two Ultron (f/2 and f/1.7) perform very similar? Cause I like the focus ring of the 1.7, and an half stop could be helpful 

 

 

[docmarten]

My recommendation for a fast non origin Leica-lens: VL 40mm/1,2. With 40mm you do not need a 35 or 50 and you have the perfect "view size" focal length...and 1.2!

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Ohne Titel by Martin Hufnagel, auf Flickr

Ohne Titel by Martin Hufnagel, auf Flickr

Edited June 26, 2020 by docmarten

[Cobram]

2 hours ago, Dennis said:

I never heard about it. What is so special about this lens? I'm curious

One point for the Nokton 35 1.4 II, great.

The M10 is great for high ISO I know, but sometimes I shoot in really low-light condition, and all I need all the help is possible.

Does the two Ultron (f/2 and f/1.7) perform very similar? Cause I like the focus ring of the 1.7, and an half stop could be helpful 

 

 

Special: Leica Summicron look, multicoating --> beautiful colors and flare resistance, very very small --> almost point and shot size :-) , and very cheap (~300-400 usd)

[Harpomatic]

I think you should check the Ultron 35mm 1.7 very closely if you like the focus ring. That lens is absolutely stellar, the image quality is modern and the bokeh quite smooth. And it could be your only travel 35mm because the size is still very reasonable. For the price it’s sold at it is a bargain.

I’m not sure going to F2 only it’s worth having two different lenses - at that point I would sell the Biogon and get the Ultron F2, with really high quality and tiny size.

Otherwise for the real difference in speed the Nokton 1.2 III makes a lot of sense to really differentiate the two lenses.

[Anakronox]

4 hours ago, Dennis said:

Does the two Ultron (f/2 and f/1.7) perform very similar? Cause I like the focus ring of the 1.7, and an half stop could be helpful 

 

 

Sorry, I’ve only ever used the a Ultron f/2.  I can’t vouch for the 1.7.  If you like that style of focus ring, go for it!

[lct]

I have no experience with CV 35/1.7 or 35/1.4 v2 but i use both ZM 35/2.8 and CV 35/2. F/2 makes a significant difference indoor, as much as 3200 vs 6400 iso actually. I mean f/2 is really a working aperture on this lens, not only aimed at forgiving portraits. Now the CV 35/2's bokeh is not the smoothest as mentioned above and f/2 cannot replace f/1.4 anyway. 

[Ko.Fe.]

8 hours ago, Dennis said:

I never heard about it. What is so special about this lens? I'm curious

One point for the Nokton 35 1.4 II, great.

The M10 is great for high ISO I know, but sometimes I shoot in really low-light condition, and all I need all the help is possible.

Does the two Ultron (f/2 and f/1.7) perform very similar? Cause I like the focus ring of the 1.7, and an half stop could be helpful 

 

 

 

Ultron 1.7 is very smooth lens on rendering, but might have purple fringing wide open. And it is total failure on ergonomics. Discontinued as of now.

Ultron f2 seems to have harsher bokeh, IMO.

 

[Dennis]

8 hours ago, docmarten said:

My recommendation for a fast non origin Leica-lens: VL 40mm/1,2

Thank you, I didn't consider this lens because it's not a pure 35FL. But I guess is fine. Is not soft wide open, right? Do you use the 35 frame lines?

Just to confirm, is this lens?

7 hours ago, Harpomatic said:

I think you should check the Ultron 35mm 1.7 very closely if you like the focus ring. That lens is absolutely stellar, the image quality is modern and the bokeh quite smooth. For the price it’s sold at it is a bargain.

Awesome. The lens ring I don't know, I should try it first, but it should be fine. Modern IQ I like it. And as you say, for the price it's absolutely a bargain considering that is 1.7.

7 hours ago, Harpomatic said:

at that point I would sell the Biogon and get the Ultron F2

Do you think that the CV Ultron f/2 and the 2.8/35 ZM has a similar IQ?

42 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Ultron 1.7 it is total failure on ergonomics.

This because the focus ring? Is that disastrous? 

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

 

Ultron 1.7 is very smooth lens on rendering, but might have purple fringing wide open. And it is total failure on ergonomics. Discontinued as of now.

 

It's discontinued but it's still easy to find.

@Dennis I think it may be the best option for your use case, it's sharp with a modern rendering, small and light, not too expensive.

The Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f/1.2 Aspherical III is bigger and heavier, but with better performances and lower light capabilities.

Voigtlander Nokton Classic 35mm f/1.4 II has a classic rendering, as per name, so not what you're looking for.

I don't know nothing about the other two, but with the Ultron 35mm f/2 you're getting only 1 extra stop of light, and the TTArtisans may be even bigger than the Zeiss Distagon

Considering that you're planning to use it only when the Biogon is not enough, I'd go for the 1.7 Asph and save money

 

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Simone_DF

[Dennis]

4 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Voigtlander Nokton Classic 35mm f/1.4 II has a classic rendering, as per name, so not what you're looking for.

LOL, it makes totally sense. Modern, not classic 🙏

4 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

The Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f/1.2 Aspherical III is bigger and heavier, but with better performances and lower light capabilities.

Are you saying that it performs better than Ultron 1.7? As I stated in my post #1, don't care about size and weight because is for a limited use. But if it performs better, it's a winner for me between the two.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Dennis

[Ko.Fe.]

46 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Do you think that the CV Ultron f/2 and the 2.8/35 ZM has a similar IQ?

This because the focus ring? Is that disastrous? 

ZM 35 2.8, 28 2.8 are very different lenses from lenses in Cosina CV line. 

How are you going to focus fast in the dark with lens which doesn't have focus tab?

It is dark and you could barely see the RF patch. With focus tab you are able to pre-focus by focus tab, without looking at the lens.

And just fine tune. With any tabless lens you will hunt for focus longer. Especially in the dark.  And those 1.7 lenses were made for masochists or those who have limited sensitivity in fingers pads. Sharp, little edges, fast rotation resistant focus dumping. Hood is lousy, btw. self unscrews. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Ko.Fe.

[Ko.Fe.]

12 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

It's discontinued but it's still easy to find.

 

 

 

It is discontinued because it was design failure. Not selling well. Of course it is easy to find. BH will sit on remaining stock for some time, because it is not popular lens. They dropped price well bellow 700 USD of it now, to get rid of them ASAP.

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[Dennis]

6 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

How are you going to focus fast in the dark with lens which doesn't have focus tab?

That's a good point. I think I'll find a way. Maybe use some marks or tapes in the focus ring to have an idea of the distances, as I have in aperture and ISO. But anyway, in super dark conditions, I wouldn't take any super close portrait. It's a about a whole scene, from a certain distance, maybe focusing on some luminous part.