Early Leica II

[Giuliobigazzi]

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Interestingly, I had a look the page with  batch 71225-249 that supposedly went to England acoording to the Montage buch and found that in fact only 2 of that batch went to the uk. Most went to the USA and Canada, and 2 to Switzerland 

[wizard]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb derleicaman:

I don't think OK means OK in the terms we are used to it. OK or Okay, came into common use post-War in Germany. I am almost certain it was not use as we think of it in the 30's.

As a German native speaker, I fully agree. Back then, it is highly unlikely that "ok" would have been used in the sense of "in good order". It must have some different meaning here, the more so since in the Leica ledgers shown above "ok" is anteceded by two quotation marks, such that the full line actually reads "Lyk feet ok". If "ok" would mean "in good order" (corresponding to what 'ok' means today), then why would most of the cameras listed in the book not be ok? That does not make sense, so "ok" certainly designates something else here.

[willeica]

13 minutes ago, wizard said:

As a German native speaker, I fully agree. Back then, it is highly unlikely that "ok" would have been used in the sense of "in good order". It must have some different meaning here, the more so since in the Leica ledgers shown above "ok" is anteceded by two quotation marks, such that the full line actually reads "Lyk feet ok". If "ok" would mean "in good order" (corresponding to what 'ok' means today), then why would most of the cameras listed in the book not be ok? That does not make sense, so "ok" certainly designates something else here.

I will post the full page later. I have also seen the page which Giulio mentions. The camera may have been subject to an extra check for some reason. It is working perfectly now 91 years later.

William 

[Giuliobigazzi]

I think the o.k. may stand for ‘ohne kassette’ (without cassette)

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Edited May 3, 2023 by Giuliobigazzi
Error

[wizard]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb Giuliobigazzi:

I think the o.k. may stand for ‘ohne kassette’ (without cassette)

Based on your above image, where it says, in line 16, "ohne Kass.", and in line 17 just says "o.K.", it seems perfectly clear that "o.K." is indeed an abbreviation of "ohne Kassette". Well done!

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb willeica:

The camera may have been subject to an extra check for some reason.

That may have been the case, but it is still most unlikely that "o.K." or "oK" (note that the records indicate "oK", and not "ok"!) was used in the sense of todays meaning of ok. See Giulio's post above, which to me clarifies what "o.K." means.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb willeica:

It is working perfectly now 91 years later.

Testimony of a quality product!

Edited May 3, 2023 by wizard
addition of text

[willeica]

9 hours ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

I think the o.k. may stand for ‘ohne kassette’ (without cassette)

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Thanks Giulio. I've been out during the day doing research at our National Photographic Archive and 'ohne' kept going through my head, but I could not figure out what the 'k' meant. That is absolutely correct, I believe. 

9 hours ago, wizard said:

Testimony of a quality product!

My camera is engraved with an address in Dublin and 4 years ago I used the camera to photograph the same building from which it had been sold 87 years earlier. The guy in the photo lab across the road was amazed when I handed in the roll of film for processing.

William 

Edited May 3, 2023 by willeica

[Giuliobigazzi]

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Such a cool story.. I had a similar experience with a James Sinclair from Whitehall, now a cheap souvenir shop in London.The ohne Kass. I stumbled across by accident which was lucky! I guess it is added because there actually isn’t a code for a Leica model A or C body only. LENEU and LEANE are a body with one magazine. From the model D, LYKAN, was body only, so no need to denote ‘without cassette’

[willeica]

38 minutes ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

Such a cool story.. I had a similar experience with a James Sinclair from Whitehall, now a cheap souvenir shop in London.The ohne Kass. I stumbled across by accident which was lucky! I guess it is added because there actually isn’t a code for a Leica model A or C body only. LENEU and LEANE are a body with one magazine. From the model D, LYKAN, was body only, so no need to denote ‘without cassette’

I have two James Sinclair engraved Leicas, a I Model A with a Charing Cross address and a II Model D with a Whitehall address. It turns out that the shop did not move but, in 1929,  the name of that part of the street was changed and, so, the shop had to change its address and its engravings. On the with/without magazine business some of the codes are for 'without magazine' as you say. The codes for the  II Models underwent quite a change over a short period of time and changed again in 1934.

William 

[derleicaman]

15 hours ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

I think the o.k. may stand for ‘ohne kassette’ (without cassette)

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I think this pretty much nails it! Ohne Kassette abbreviated “Ohne Kass.” And then on the next line O.K.

Reading the handwriting and then the abbreviations in the delivery records can be quite a challenge!

 

[Giuliobigazzi]

Re my comment on LYKUP being body only. This is what I have read in books,  but actually there are also entries marked LYKUP o.K so maybe originally this was also with cassette included. There are also LYKUP 2.5, that will at some point later changed to LYHEK. 

[willeica]

1 hour ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

Re my comment on LYKUP being body only. This is what I have read in books,  but actually there are also entries marked LYKUP o.K so maybe originally this was also with cassette included. There are also LYKUP 2.5, that will at some point later changed to LYHEK. 

That was part of the transformation of the name. Did you find the insert in the front page of the delivery book for 1931 which records the very rapid changes in the FILCA cassette over a very short period in that year?  It starts here with a photo I took in the archives

and I posted it in the very long thread where we have discussed the many changes in the FILCA cassette. The point I am making is that the number of changes in Leica cameras, lenses and accessories in the short period from 1930 to 1933 was large and very rapid. Some of the things which Leica users take for granted today emerged in that short time frame e.g. built in rangefinder, standardised mount and interchangeable lenses etc. The rapid nomenclature changes are a reflection of that.

William 

[Guest]

On 10/20/2022 at 1:32 AM, Giuliobigazzi said:

Here is 72401. Delivered on 14.11.1931, I have heard of no earlier. There are design differences so probably pre production/prototype. If earlier serial II’s were originally assigned to Ic’s this would explain why such an early example bears a slightly higher serial than expected. Camera is a Leih-Kamera Ia, so this delivery date would apply to the top plate only. Still unclear why or how these two parts came together.

Great article in vidom 125 about this camera, @Giuliobigazzi! 

[Guest]

By the way, I noticed that the OP seems to have left the forum, which is sad. I always liked his contributions to this section of the forum.

[Giuliobigazzi]

5 hours ago, Studienkamera said:

Great article in vidom 125 about this camera, @Giuliobigazzi! 

Thank you!