Miami is remembering George Floyd

[Louis]

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[bags27]

wonderful photos, Louis, here and at Zenfolio

[james.liam]

How charming!

Floyd's murder was unspeakable. The multitudes who were set to return to work after 3 months of idleness now have nowhere to return. Like my business & my neighborhood, a burned shell. I should post some pictures of the 'peaceful' protest aftermath.

George Floyd's memory twice defiled; once by a depraved officer of the court and second, by The Mob (see: French Revolution, Russian Revolution, Chinese Revolution, Cuban Revolution....).

[giannis]

2 hours ago, james.liam said:

George Floyd's memory twice defiled

Allow me to disagree. With murders like this, the memory of the deceased is not honoured if they just become quaint memorials where we deposit some flowers. It is honoured when it catalyse and accelerates change. And when change is requested peacefully, and ignored time after time, violence takes the lead. Violence is the midwife of history after all. Americans collectively also tried to ask for change, when they protested about taxation with no representation. Yet when it was not granted, the founding fathers didn't ask for more of "peaceful protest", they did what had to be done and the rest is history. Interesting that you forgot the American Revolution from your list though.

 

Good photos @Louis. Stay safe and share more photos if you go out and shoot some more.

Edited June 1, 2020 by giannis
grammar

[james.liam]

3 hours ago, giannis said:

Allow me to disagree. With murders like this, the memory of the deceased is not honoured if they just become quaint memorials where we deposit some flowers. It is honoured when it catalyse and accelerates change. And when change is requested peacefully, and ignored time after time, violence takes the lead. Violence is the midwife of history after all. Americans collectively also tried to ask for change, when they protested about taxation with no representation. Yet when it was not granted, the founding fathers didn't ask for more of "peaceful protest", they did what had to be done and the rest is history. Interesting that you forgot the American Revolution from your list though.

 

Good photos @Louis. Stay safe and share more photos if you go out and shoot some more.

Equating this to the Founding Fathers before the American Revolution is part of the problem, Giannis. Protests to raise the conciousness of indifferent masses is a Right and I'd even add an obligation of responsible citizenship. Grabbing a brick and going for a new 50" TV or the latest pair of Nikes is not.

Keep up the keen eye, #Louis.

[Louis]

Anger, and violence brought by anger, is human, understandable and sometimes , Legitimate. But, IMHO, taking advantage of anger and using it for looting and destroying innocent people properties is not excusable and even acceptable. 
I naively believe “justice” is “noble”; but I can’t find looting and destroying to be “Nobel”

Edited June 1, 2020 by Louis

[Louis]

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Folks, thank you very much for your likes and for visiting and leaving encouraging words for my Zenfolio gallery. We are living throughout  a very tough time, but our unity is needed more than ever.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Louis

[stuny]

A terrific set, and I really like the symbolism of #1

[fotografr]

On 6/1/2020 at 6:44 AM, james.liam said:

Equating this to the Founding Fathers before the American Revolution is part of the problem, Giannis. Protests to raise the conciousness of indifferent masses is a Right and I'd even add an obligation of responsible citizenship. Grabbing a brick and going for a new 50" TV or the latest pair of Nikes is not.

Keep up the keen eye, #Louis.

A few days ago I had exactly the same reaction to watching the shops of small merchants in my city get smashed and looted. I even said as much when I posted images of the aftermath of these protests here. Last night my nephew, who lives in Portland, Oregon, sent me a link that gave me a better understanding of why the destruction, burning and looting are happening. The language is tough, but I'd encourage you and others to watch it. You may look at things differently.

https://m.facebook.com/nothingwithoutgrace/videos/3506950919319280

Edited June 4, 2020 by fotografr

[fotografr]

Very nice photo reportage, Louis.

[james.liam]

2 hours ago, fotografr said:

A few days ago I had exactly the same reaction to watching the shops of small merchants in my city get smashed and looted. I even said as much when I posted images of the aftermath of these protests here. Last night my nephew, who lives in Portland, Oregon, sent me a link that gave me a better understanding of why the destruction, burning and looting are happening. The language is tough, but I'd encourage you and others to watch it. You may look at things differently.

https://m.facebook.com/nothingwithoutgrace/videos/3506950919319280

With respect, this video is a rationalization of what amounts to Terrorism. Why looters/rioters/protesters specifically do what they do, is part of a forensic analysis after the fact. Destroying local shops in your own neighborhood and burning the buildings of your own families and friends makes no point beyond creating a climate of fear and leaving civil societies in ashes. Sadly,  'outrage' appears selective. An African American Federal security officer was executed in Oakland by 'rioters' or 'social justice warriors'. Crickets from the press or self-styled 'activists'. Businesses meticulously built over decades by immigrants and African Americans left in rubble. Hopes, futures dashed.

Notwithstanding the horror of that singular murder and other tragedies like it, or ongoing issues with policing across the nation, this is not 1920. African Americans have risen to positions in government and business unimaginable one hundred years ago. A black man has been President. Progress is never linear or always forward. Attitudes can't be legislated but evolve over time. 

People need to stop, and taken a deep breath for a reality check.

[IkarusJohn]

Here’s a reality check for you, James:

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/04/09/views-of-racial-inequality/

[james.liam]

4 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Here’s a reality check for you, James:

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/04/09/views-of-racial-inequality/

Ikarus, opinion polls (who predicted a Hillary Clinton landslide in 2016) interest me less that what I see and experience in a multi-ethnic and multi-racial country and City.

Edited June 4, 2020 by james.liam

[IkarusJohn]

Hi James, fair comment.  People’s opinions and how they express them are never as good as facts - yours and mine being cases in point.  You don’t like Pee, how about Brookings:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/02/27/examining-the-black-white-wealth-gap/

Federal Reserve of Cleveland:

https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroom-and-events/publications/economic-commentary/2019-economic-commentaries/ec-201903-what-is-behind-the-persistence-of-the-racial-wealth-gap.aspx

Or why not just Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_States

Or perhaps, wherever you live, drive to the other side of the tracks and look out the window?

[james.liam]

You’re quoting self-declared experts who render their own opinion, often from the comfort of an office high above reality delivering up facile answers that play to an audience. (Especially WiKipedia that’s just the opinions of anyone who picks up a keyboard). No disrespect intended but you see these things from your splendid isolation of the  South Pacific 20,000 km’s away,. I can do the same about the Maori in NZ but I’ve never been there on the ground and what I’ve  read is through the bias of any author. I grew up on the ‘other side of the tracks’ and have been a physician on and off on the same side of the railroad. There are profound issues still to be resolved but again, America isn’t the Jim Crow South, circa 1910. Hell, the South isn’t the Jim Crow South of the early 20th century.  

Edited June 4, 2020 by james.liam

[IkarusJohn]

4 hours ago, james.liam said:

African Americans have risen to positions in government and business unimaginable one hundred years ago. A black man has been President. Progress is never linear or always forward. Attitudes can't be legislated but evolve over time. 

Okay, perhaps I misunderstood you, James.  I thought you were saying all is “hunky dory” with African Americans, and all the hand-wringing about inequality is not based on reality.

Having visited the US on and off over the last 30 years or so, I can confirm that I have mixed with a very specific group of well-heeled professional people in “the comfort of an office high above reality”, or someone else’s reality.  But, at least I look down from time to time.  I can also confirm that attending conferences of my fellow isolated privileged, that African Americans and other minorities are there, but not in the proportions which reflect the reality of the population at large.  One swallow doesn’t make summer.  I also don’t make the mistake of assessing the outside world from what I see around me.  

Happy to discuss the situation with Maori any time with you, James, if you want to know more.  The statistics seem very similar to those for African American’s in the US - disproportionate numbers in prison, on welfare, poor health statistics, horrendous child mortality.  What’s your point?  NZ has a terrible problem with Maori, so what’s happening in the US is okay?

You won’t like statistics from the NAACP, right:

https://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

A few years ago, I was in Miami (we are talking about Miami, right?).  I tried to drive to Little Cuba, and took a wrong turn.  That was frightening ...

[fotografr]

6 hours ago, james.liam said:

 

Notwithstanding the horror of that singular murder and other tragedies like it, or ongoing issues with policing across the nation, this is not 1920. African Americans have risen to positions in government and business unimaginable one hundred years ago. A black man has been President. Progress is never linear or always forward. Attitudes can't be legislated but evolve over time. 

People need to stop, and taken a deep breath for a reality check.

True, a small minority of African Americans have managed to rise to powerful positions but that tells you nothing about their day to day experiences. I listened to an interview with an African American doctor who works with coronavirus patients in a New York hospital. He said the most fear he feels every day does not come from working around a highly contagious virus, but rather driving to and from work. He constantly has to worry about getting pulled over and what can transpire from an encounter with police.

Those of us who enjoy all the benefits of white privilege can't imagine what life is like for most African Americans in this country and in my opinion we are hardly in a position to make judgements about the basis for their rage and how they express it. Maybe part of their rationale for the destruction and looting is to have white society feel for a few days what blacks in this country have to feel every day of their lives.

Edited June 4, 2020 by fotografr

[james.liam]

The story is not monolithic especially since North America is stunningly diverse in its history, geography and circumstance. Generalizations are useless. As for the  NAACP, it has its own agenda to peddle though at one time, it was apolitical. It is no longer this, and it’s pronouncements need to be taken with grains of salt. 
 

 

[james.liam]

50 minutes ago, fotografr said:

True, a small minority of African Americans have managed to rise to powerful positions but that tells you nothing about their day to day experiences. I listened to an interview with an African American doctor who works with coronavirus patients in a New York hospital. He said the most fear he feels every day does not come from working around a highly contagious virus, but rather driving to and from work. He constantly has to worry about getting pulled over and what can transpire from an encounter with police.

Those of us who enjoy all the benefits of white privilege can't imagine what life is like for most African Americans in this country and in my opinion we are hardly in a position to make judgements about the basis for their rage and how they express it. Maybe part of their rationale for the destruction and looting is to have white society feel for a few days what blacks in this country have to feel every day of their lives.

Small minority? Sorry but that’s just not true. I challenge you to present the statistics. Too many are not living up to their greatest potential But the best universities have a high matriculation rates for students of black, Asian, and Hispanic backgrounds. 
you’re all painting a picture than it is. The ubiquity if the violence has distorted perceptions. and please don’t use the “white privilege” canard. It’s as racist as looking at anyone who speak Spanish as “Latin” or who appear of African descent simply as “black”. Life is nuanced and resorting to these labels makes you no better than a bigot who can only see “the Other” when confronted with differences. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by james.liam

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[IkarusJohn]

So, where are these statistics which refute everything else as generalisations and political agenda?  You say that none of what has been posted is reliable. Provide us with factual statistics which support your proposition.