HIGHRES SHOT WHERE ARE YOU????

[The206]

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Dear Leica,

I bought this camera a few months ago now and part of the reason was the feature of being able to do a pixel shift shot for a higher res image. I understand sometimes the world isn't perfect and you need a little more time to release features (truthfully I think its bullshit to advertise something, sell it and not provide it), so ok maybe a couple months or so after release, but this is now not ok. I paid money for a feature, get your shit together and provide people what they paid for, or if you don't have your shit together DON'T ADVERTISE IT AS A FEATURE AND INSTEAD PROVIDE IT AS A SURPRISE IN A FIRMWARE UPDATE

[Photoworks]

LOL just return it, most pixel shifts are not that useful 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

5 hours ago, Photoworks said:

LOL just return it, most pixel shifts are not that useful 

It'll be essentially the same as the S1R. That's the best pixel shift in the market right now. So it'll be pretty good actually as long as you keep movement to a minimum. I use it for product work on the S1R sometimes. Files are incredible.

OTOH, I print at A1 regularly and the SL2 files are ample for that size without pixel shift 99% of the time. You really want to be printing big to get the most from it.

As for the delay. Partly due to the COVID-19 pandemic I'd say. But I do agree they should have advertised it honestly as an upcoming feature for a future release rather than make it seem like it was going to be there from the start.

Gordon

Edited May 23, 2020 by FlashGordonPhotography

[Jeff S]

All the key reviewers I followed near product release clarified that the feature was forthcoming, but not yet available.  If it was that critical, why buy before it’s both available and without any problem reports?  I heard that there was a virus going around, too.  

For me, the SL2 does all I expected, especially since I demoed it before committing. It is fair, though, to criticize Leica for generally slow FW releases, for most gear, but I’ve come to expect it. 

Jeff

[scott kirkpatrick]

11 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

It'll be essentially the same as the S1R. That's the best pixel shift in the market right now. So it'll be pretty good actually as long as you keep movement to a minimum. I use it for product work on the S1R sometimes. Files are incredible.

I found artifacts in the S1R HiRes that turn a sharp black/whie edge into something that looks like bathroom tiles, but it was good for less contrasty images, and has some tricks to handle distant leafy backgrounds which tend to have wind motion.  So Leica may have announced it as in the very near future. assuming that it would take them a short time to get to Panasonic's level and then fix a few things.  The SL2 instruction manual also assumes that low energy BlueTooth (BTLE) would  handle geotagging as well as date and time updating  because , after all, Panasonic had that under control, too.  I suspect that they have since found that doing these simple things with fewer firmware or software engineers and less years of experience than Panasonic has is harder than it looked.

Edited May 24, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[michali]

In the several months that I had the S1R,  my experience with Hires was less than satisfactory and mirrors Scott's experience. I tried it in various landscape situations with the camera resting on a bean bag, tripod and a table, there was always some movement blur in the background due to wind in trees etc. 

I personally think it's an overrated feature which gives you less control over the process when compared to bracketing.

As a comparison have a look at BlackDoc's images using bracketing on the SL2 & my attempt with HiRes with the S1R below. You can click on my test image to enlarge & you'll see the blur.  I never used this feature again, in any event I sold the S1R & moved on to the SL2. 

 

S1R & LEICA VE 90-280mm L @ 270mm  -ISO160  f11 @ 1/400s

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Edited May 24, 2020 by michali

[Stuart Richardson]

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I will add to the chorus. The high resolution mode on the Panasonic S1 is useful to a certain degree, but it depends a lot on the situation. The best part about it on the Panasonics is that it also gives you a normal resolution copy alongside the larger stitched version, so if you want to use the photo but find the artifacts disturbing, you still have the normal resolution version. I noticed the zipper effect as well, particularly on distant harder edges like mountain ridges. I have the S1, and I compared the 100mp stitches using S lenses to the 37mp files using the same lenses on the S006, and I often preferred the files from the S, despite them being 63 million pixels short. Not all pixels are created equal, and I think native resolution is most important. The S1 produces superb pixel sharpness at native resolution, but when shifted you lose a bit of the snap, and you are certainly not getting a true quadrupling of the resolution, even with no compromise lenses like the 50mm APO Summicron SL. 

Hopefully Leica will be able to improve on Panasonic's implementation, but it seems like a tall order. Designing an algorithm to automatically stitch together 8 pictures in all situations and make it work much be an extremely difficult task.

[scott kirkpatrick]

The problem is that when you shoot eight shots in place of one, the pixels didn't get any smaller.  There is a benefit of shooting at each pixel location through all four Bayer filters, but the second factor of two comes at the espense of having each pixel overlap four of the others which are displaced only half a spacing.  So you need some signal processing tricks to decide whether to pretend that they don't overlap, or to blend the signals from the two groups of four.  Panasonic took a quick and simple approach, I suspect. 

[The206]

For me all arguments aside, I really just want what I paid for and this feature wasn't listed as coming soon, it was sold as a feature of the camera. I chose this over the S1R because I like Leica's interface but the fact remains that this camera doesn't have this feature. I would just appreciate a little more transparency, most camera makers offer some sense of a roadmap for updates. With Leica its just pure bullshit silence. If you want to sell professional cameras how about we try acting a little more professional. When my client asks me when they can expect files from a shoot I don't just say soon. And yes I can appreciate that the world is a bit crazy right now with Covid-19 but I fail to see how firmware/software issues should be impacted. All my friends in tech have continued working status quo. Also this camera came out long before the pandemic hit. Leica as per usual is just useless when it comes to updating their cameras. So with that said, good bye SL2, just sold it and got the S1R and enough left over to purchase a new macbook pro. 

[Jeff S]

32 minutes ago, The206 said:

So with that said, good bye SL2, just sold it and got the S1R and enough left over to purchase a new macbook pro. 

Using SL or Panasonic (or other) lenses?  

Jeff

[Photoworks]

30 minutes ago, The206 said:

For me all arguments aside, I really just want what I paid for and this feature wasn't listed as coming soon, it was sold as a feature of the camera. I chose this over the S1R because I like Leica's interface but the fact remains that this camera doesn't have this feature. I would just appreciate a little more transparency, most camera makers offer some sense of a roadmap for updates. With Leica its just pure bullshit silence. If you want to sell professional cameras how about we try acting a little more professional. When my client asks me when they can expect files from a shoot I don't just say soon. And yes I can appreciate that the world is a bit crazy right now with Covid-19 but I fail to see how firmware/software issues should be impacted. All my friends in tech have continued working status quo. Also this camera came out long before the pandemic hit. Leica as per usual is just useless when it comes to updating their cameras. So with that said, good bye SL2, just sold it and got the S1R and enough left over to purchase a new macbook pro. 

why are you blowing steam on this forum then if you already sold it?  You should be happy.

I have the multi-shot mode in many other camera and found no use for it. The only place I can think of is art reproduction, maybe not even that since it goes into silent mode and does not trigger the flash.

What clients are you offering it to?

[The206]

I just sold the camera yesterday, after I blew off the steam. I still own an SL1 which is why I am on this forum. Sheesh, can't a guy blow off a little steam. It's frustrating when camera makers are so close to having a great product but then make poor choices like no log for 4k 60fps unless I run it thru a bulky monitor. Anyway I shoot highend product and don't like using larger and slower medium format cameras. The 35mm format gives me a better depth of field, less focus stacking, plus far better ISO performance. I just tried out the highres format on the S1R and its brilliant. I get the advantages of medium format sized images without the bulk. The SL2 would have been a great camera if it actually had this feature but it was cheaper for me to dump the SL2 then rent a camera for a few days. a 4 day shoot of product would have cost me $350/day for a medium format body plus lenses. The client demanded min 60mp files, so basically the new sony a7r 4 seems to be the new benchmark for advertising shoots. I can use my L mount lenses on the S1R no prob and it is pretty much the exact same sensor as the SL2. Win win

[Stuart Richardson]

I am just curious...are you from the US? Because the response to Covid in Germany has been much different than in the US, and I know that most of my German friends are only working in a very limited capacity. I get your frustration, and agree that Leica should not market features that it does not have available...or at least should be very clear that they are not yet in the camera. That said, the camera was only announced in November, so if you account for Covid, the camera has only been released for about 3 or 4 months where Leica was fully up and running. Leica has always been methodical and extremely conservative about releasing features and firmware. They will not do release it until they think it is of the necessary quality. This can be frustrating, but they have always run on their own timeline. Look at the S3...they did not release it until more than a year and a half after it was announced and demos were circulating around with beta testers. There are only two possibilities to get around this. 1. Wait. 2. Sell for another camera. You took number 2. The S1R is a really appealing camera, so I imagine you will be well served.

[lx1713]

Blowing off steam can be tiring   It's an understandable frustration, of course.

However, it doesn't change what the SL2 is and could grow into with future upgrades. I'm still enjoying my SL even while I use the SL2.

I do find it odd that I'm using the SL in the studio while shooting 47mp files in the field for events. Really weird because 24mp was enough for my studio clients and the SL2 is a much better experience in the field. Both are simply great at what they are. I might add that the Q2 is a lovely companion.

[Jeff S]

13 hours ago, The206 said:

...I chose this over the S1R because I like Leica's interface....

So will you buy another SL2 if/when it incorporates similarly effective high res?  Or will the grudge supersede shooting pleasure?

Jeff

[The206]

For sure as soon as the SL2 gains the highres feature I will jump back in. It is the far better camera for overall ease of use but right now the highres feature is a must for the product photography that I am shooting as it is being used on massive billboards. Again I could have gone with a gfx 100 but the camera is so clunky and one dimensional compared the the S1R and the SL2. 

But would have to reconsider the SL2 should canon's EOSR5 or Nikon Z9 come out before hand. I shoot video as well and having 8K RAW is certainly a huge advantage over the SL2. Great time to be a photographer as we have so many choices. But perhaps camera makers should consult actual photographers about features instead of youtubers.

[Jeff S]

If experienced photographers agreed on key gear design features, controls or operations, all the thread discussions here would be two comments long and the forum would eventually die of boredom. 😉

Tell your clients that billboards don’t require ultra high resolution, assuming they’re viewed at long distance. 😆 

https://fstoppers.com/originals/how-many-megapixels-do-you-need-print-billboard-220239

Jeff

[jaapv]

The last large billboard I saw close up was 3x4.5 meters. It was shot on a Canon 5D and it was at least good enough to show the horrible CA of the Canon lens and the second-rate postprocessing.
It looked quite all right at normal viewing distance.

[Photoworks]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

The last large billboard I saw close up was 3x4.5 meters. It was shot on a Canon 5D and it was at least good enough to show the horrible CA of the Canon lens and the second-rate postprocessing.
It looked quite all right at normal viewing distance.

yep. I still shoot in the studio with 24mp Canon 5d and my clients loves them and uses them on the side of a building 1 story high.

 

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[BernardC]

20 hours ago, The206 said:

the highres feature is a must for the product photography that I am shooting as it is being used on massive billboards.

Sorry to be off-topic, but I've often wondered what is the actual resolution of billboards, do you know?

I did some Web searches, and found a figure of 30 dpi, but I have no idea if that's a valid number. That would give 7200 pixels across for a 6 meter billboard, which is 35 MP on a 2x3 (35mm format) sensor. It's slightly more on a 3x4 sensor (most medium format, except for the Leica S), but still fits comfortably within the 8250 pixel wide sensor of the GFX and X1D.

One one hand, 30 dpi seems low, but it also feels very high if I compare the sense of resolution I get from a 37MP S-006 to what I typically see on billboards.

I would appreciate it if you could provide inside information 🙂

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