Arrival and Features of the CL2

[Marac]

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The reason is simple.

For me to get other camera stuff, financially I have no option other than to sell my current system. I wish I could afford to keep hold of my old stuff, trust me, I would of NEVER EVER sold my Noctilux E58 and Monochrome, My M8, M9, WATE, MATE, Summilux-M 35/50/75, the list goes on.

I'm very happy to of owned many systems.

I do still have some very old stuff kicking around that didn't sell including.

Nikon F501. Sony DSC-R1. Mamiya ZD DSLR(converting to IR). Leica T(converted to IR) a handful of M42 lenses from Yashica & Zeiss

My current weapons of choice are Lumix S1R, Sigma 14-24 / Sigma 45 / Sigma 70 Macro (maybe for sale) I can use all my CL lenses on the S1R in crop mode with great results but the manual focussing capabilities with the S1R (peaking and IBIS) are making me fancy using M lenses again so I need to sell off the other stuff to buy some M lenses, hope that makes sense hahaha I'm not just a gear hog or abuser.

I also love to fix stuff, clean lenses, repair broken stuff, convert mounts etc etc so I have a big junk drawer.

 

Everyone stay safe, 

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[ramarren]

9 hours ago, nicci78 said:

There is no Summilux-M 60 (equivalent to 90mm) Only 50 (75 which is too short) or 75 (112.5 which is too long) 

Macro-Elmarit-R 60 does exist. But same f/2.8 only as TL 60. ... 

You know, there is always the option of being flexible and adapting to something that exists instead of complaining about something that does not. 🙄

G

[tommonego@gmail.com]

Fast 8X equivalent, 55 f1.4 7 Artisans, just sayin'. Image quality is way above it's price. I generally use my M8 for portraits with a 90 Elmarit, generally 10mp is fine for what I am doing, oh do I have to get a 75 for this, GAS strikes again.

[nicci78]

I bought a Leica body to use Leica lenses.
If I have to use any other brand of lenses. I will just do it with another way cheaper body. 
When you start a new system, at least have the decency to release the bare minimum selection of lenses. Otherwise don’t even start it in the first place. 
Yes it absolutely have to be first party native lens = APS-C AF L-mount lens from Leica. 
 

In all fairness I never complained about the lack of TL lens before. I gave Leica the benefit of the doubt until now. They got 6 years to show us full support for APS-C. But let us down after the launch of the tiny but not mighty Elmarit-TL 18mm. Since then radio silence  🤫 

 

[jaapv]

Ask twenty photographers and they'll wish for forty different lenses...🙄
You want a high-speed long zoom. I agree about the long zoom. But please not a huge heavy expensive gun. Keep it  light, keep it small, give it O.I.S. There  is no need for high lens speed at all. ISO is good,  subject separation not  an issue at long focal lengths.

Fast  shorter lenses? I don't know. You'll never compete with medium format for narrow DOF, and it is not like MFT which gets  grainy at anything over ISO 800. Actually, I think that the lineup is not bad for the type of camera.

[ramarren]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

I bought a Leica body to use Leica lenses.
If I have to use any other brand of lenses. I will just do it with another way cheaper body. 
When you start a new system, at least have the decency to release the bare minimum selection of lenses. Otherwise don’t even start it in the first place. 
Yes it absolutely have to be first party native lens = APS-C AF L-mount lens from Leica. 
 

In all fairness I never complained about the lack of TL lens before. I gave Leica the benefit of the doubt until now. They got 6 years to show us full support for APS-C. But let us down after the launch of the tiny but not mighty Elmarit-TL 18mm. Since then radio silence  🤫 

 

Sounds like you are unhappy with your Leica products. Sell 'em, give'em away, buy something that makes you happy. 

If I were so desperately in need of specific focal length and speed lenses to be happy, I'd seek out who made those first and then buy whatever camera they worked on. Buying *anything* on the expectation that something you really want/need is going to be available 'at some point in the future' is a sure path to frustrated expectations. 

G

[nicci78]

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Exactly. I am so fed up to wait for lenses that will never come. 
Also fed up to have to adapt other kind of non native lens. 

When I still got an M (M3, M Monochrom, M9, M typ 262 or M10) I did not have this kind of lenses shortage. My typical setup were : SEM 21, Summicron 28 & 35, Summilux 50, APO 90, Tele 135 & Macro-Adapter-M 

Everything got were covered, except very long lens. 
And now ? I cannot reproduce this quite typical setup with the CL. (Focal wise and equivalent aperture wise) 

 

I really like the CL. Best camera I ever own. I enjoyed using it more than any other camera. But I now have to face the truth : Leica will never release new lens for the system. 
So now ? Sell everything ? I am considering it. Q2 already replace most of TL lenses : 18-56, 18, 23 & 35. The remaining three (11-23, 60 & 55-135) are not fast enough for my liking, ranging from f/2.8 to f/4.5 

[LocalHero1953]

We need a separate thread for talking about missing TL lenses (which I would happily avoid). I don't normally worry about derailed threads, but this one has got a bit excitable, and I'd rather hear members' ideas about what the CL2 camera could or should look like.

[Sjz]

36 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

We need a separate thread for talking about missing TL lenses (which I would happily avoid). I don't normally worry about derailed threads, but this one has got a bit excitable, and I'd rather hear members' ideas about what the CL2 camera could or should look like.

Hi LocalHero,

I think there were a few common themes.  IBIS, weather proofing, perhaps more megapixels, keeping the camera the same size, adding a button for back button focus and anchoring that free floating focal point.  

What I didn’t see was any desire for an increase in the quality of autofocus, eye tracking, faster frame rate, improved video capabilities.

 

My ranking is:

1. Please give us the ability to Fix the Focal Point 

2. IBIS

I think it is a fantastic camera as it is.  

Other than the two above (and possibly easier bbf) I would expect CL2 to have the usual incremental improvements in dynamic range, noise suppression etc, that all new cameras claim.   
 

More special editions, a red one, a ghost edition, a safari one, titanium anyone???

Edited May 17, 2020 by Sjz

[LocalHero1953]

Someone suggested that Leica could merge the CL and the TL lines. If that meant a body with the CL's functionality (incl. EVF) and the TL's physical style and menu interface, I would find that interesting!

[Sjz]

5 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Someone suggested that Leica could merge the CL and the TL lines. If that meant a body with the CL's functionality (incl. EVF) and the TL's physical style and menu interface, I would find that interesting!

Yikes!       😉     I like the CL body,, don’t touch that!

[jaapv]

+1

But I like the TL body as well. On a TL camera.

[EUSe]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jaapv:

+1

But I like the TL body as well. On a TL camera.

I sort of downgraded from the CL to a TL2 body (still have the CL). It is real fun, I really like this camera considered as Leica's ugly duckling by some, especially without the Visoflex. The menu is refreshingly simple and appealing. If only the firmware could be updated. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by EUSe

[ruskkyle]

On the subject of video specs. Firstly I know that the CL is not intended as a video camera, but since there is a video mode and the image is quite nice I have always thought Leica are missing an easy win by not simply enabling the following:

- 25p (PAL). This is the big one for professionals working in the UK. Being limited to only 30 or 60p renders the camera more or less useless, even as a B cam to combine with other footage. 30 into 25 does not go.

- Manual exposure control. Yes the recent firmware update enabling selectable F stop was a good start but we really need to set shutter speed as well to allow consistent motion.

I do not believe either of these are unreasonable requests or would require anything more than firmware updates. Every other camera manufacturer can manage it! Beyond that, selectable bit rates and Log colour science would be lovely.

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, ruskkyle said:

On the subject of video specs. Firstly I know that the CL is not intended as a video camera, but since there is a video mode and the image is quite nice I have always thought Leica are missing an easy win by not simply enabling the following:

- 25p (PAL). This is the big one for professionals working in the UK. Being limited to only 30 or 60p renders the camera more or less useless, even as a B cam to combine with other footage. 30 into 25 does not go.

- Manual exposure control. Yes the recent firmware update enabling selectable F stop was a good start but we really need to set shutter speed as well to allow consistent motion.

I do not believe either of these are unreasonable requests or would require anything more than firmware updates. Every other camera manufacturer can manage it! Beyond that, selectable bit rates and Log colour science would be lovely.

I half like this. I agree the CL is pretty Micky Mouse when it comes to video (though in the right conditions it looks good), and the TL2 was actually better and had an HDMI-out port. But I learned the limitations of the TL2 which I suspect would apply to any CL2 as well: heat dissipation. The TL2 would shut down after less than half an hour of recording to an external device (i.e. via HDMI, and not as a result of the artificial 30 minute limit), and was warm to hot at the end. I suspect having a sensor operating full time for that period is challenging. The SL/SL2/S1 are all much bigger, and the Sigma fp has a heat sink and vents across the back. So I suspect the CL2 with upgraded video is always going to have constraints, though I agree it would be nice to have more control over format and exposure.

[scott kirkpatrick]

The Lumix S1H also has the vented heat sink and its codecs are still not the most aggressive.  But that doesn't rule out having a good world-set of frame rates, data rates and controls for the CL2.  Typically the cameras come with 30P and 60P or 25P and 50P but not all four and which pair you get depends on where you buy it, not where you shoot it.  That seems silly.

Edited May 17, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[ruskkyle]

I would add that I don’t hold out any hope for my above suggestions being implemented - I notice the Q2 has all the same video limitations as the Q.

[cp995]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb LocalHero1953:

Someone suggested that Leica could merge the CL and the TL lines. If that meant a body with the CL's functionality (incl. EVF) and the TL's physical style and menu interface, I would find that interesting!

IMHO the TL and the CL are members of the same "productline" = APS-C L-Mount.

I hope it will survive ...
 

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[ramarren]

11 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

...I'd rather hear members' ideas about what the CL2 camera could or should look like.

heh. I have already given you my take on that. Gimme a remote release cord and I'll be perfectly satisfied.

Everything else is questionable for my needs.

G

Edited May 17, 2020 by ramarren

[Radek]

It would be nice to combine q2 and sigma fp in form of new cl.