S3 does not support UHS-II

[BernardC]

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2 hours ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

I think that qualify as not supporting UHS-II... ie, you won't get the benefit of UHS-II, if you don't say that, people will be spending lots of money buying UHS-II card to insert into the thing and only find out that it's totally unnecessary as it doesn't support... so don't think it's misleading in the title, no?

"Does not support" implies "does not work," which isn't the case. Even if it did not use the extra speed, you would still benefit from faster data downloads (provided your computer can use it).

As was pointed-out, Leica recommends UHS-II for video in the S3, so this whole thread is based on a misunderstanding. Maybe the original source confused UHS-II with CFExpress (the S3 has a CF card slot, but not the more current CFExpress slot).

[xiaubauu2009]

3 hours ago, Chaemono said:

M10M has the same pixel pitch as S3 and I’m willing to bet that the next M will have that sensor, with a color filter. 

is it the M10R?

[Jeff S]

4 hours ago, Chaemono said:

M10M has the same pixel pitch as S3 and I’m willing to bet that the next M will have that sensor, with a color filter. 

Consistent with Nicci’s explanation in other threads that the M240 was derived from the S007.  Economies.

Jeff

Edited April 27, 2020 by Jeff S

[Chaemono]

vor 38 Minuten schrieb xiaubauu2009:

is it the M10R?

That’s my guess. 

[John McMaster]

15 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Consistent with Nicci’s explanation in other threads that the M240 was derived from the S007. 

The M(240) came out before the S(007) 😉   The S(007) sensor is far better (I have both), and Nicci is talking about the Sony sensor...

john

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, John McMaster said:

The M(240) came out before the S(007) 😉   The S(007) sensor is far better (I have both), and Nicci is talking about the Sony sensor...

john

No, he isn’t. See link and rest of thread.  He further explains that the M10M and expected M10 R sensors are derived from the S3, even though the M10M hit the market first.

 

Here’s Nicci’s quote from the earlier link..

”Leica has done this since the M 240. The Leica Max 24MP is a cut down version of Leica S (typ 007) 37.5MP sensor. Same tech, different cut size. But huge scale economy for Leica, because nobody made 37.5MP or 65MP 45x30 sensor. And Leica did not seem to sell tons of S cameras. “

Jeff

Edited April 27, 2020 by Jeff S

[Jeff S]

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But Fuji and Sony DO work together to realize sensor economies...

Jeff

Edited April 27, 2020 by Jeff S

[setuporg]

@Jeff S then how would it explain a much letter high ISO performance of the S 007 vs the M 240?

[setuporg]

@BernardC "does not support UHS-II" means natively.  There's no other reasonable reading since the UHS-II standard ensures backward compatibility with UHS-I, which any quick reading of the UHS-II spec or overview shows.  Thus anything supporting UHS-I will support UHS-II in some way, just possibly at non-native speeds.  By CFExpress you probably mean CFast?  CompactFlash and CFast differ (among other things) by the indents and one cannot be inserted into another's slot, which was another surprise for me, I have a Canon XC-15 (the first photo-video hybrid, alas not enough on the photo side) that takes CFast for 4K video and it was a surprise when I couldn't stick one into 007...  

I'm not keen on fast writing, it is just another data point for me whether the hardware platform was overhauled in any way...  E.g. X1Dii got USB-C charging, GPS went inside instead of a hot shoe option, native UHS-II was added, LCD enlarged and improved, EVF resolution increased (but still abysmal compared to the SL2 or even Q2), etc., all between 2016 and 2019.  I.e. fully within the release dates of S007 and S3, Hasselblad did a much better upgrade job.

Edited April 27, 2020 by setuporg

[Jeff S]

54 minutes ago, setuporg said:

@Jeff S then how would it explain a much letter high ISO performance of the S 007 vs the M 240?

I don’t know about your premise, as some have reported similar results, i.e., clean up to 1600, then some noise thereafter.  But accepting the point, I wouldn’t expect a much larger sensor, along with other internal camera hardware and/or software differences, to translate to equivalent results for many different parameters.  But I’m no expert on this; just reporting Nicci’s information, which I have no reason to doubt.  I think it was smart, even if necessary, for Leica to create economies of scale for an otherwise likely cost prohibitive sensor implementation for the S007, and again with the S3.

Jeff

[setuporg]

I'd say everyone with an 007 is used to the camera doing fine/OK at 3200-6400, which M240 is not known for.  It never occurred to me that my M60 and S007 could be related, although come to think of it, they came to be around the same time, in fact 007 a few months later.  It would require an explanation as to why the larger number of pixels in S007 add to a better high ISO performance...  It would be very interesting to find out whether that's in fact so and why.  

PS.  Funny how a thread inevitably diverges.:)

Edited April 28, 2020 by setuporg

[xiaubauu2009]

1 hour ago, setuporg said:

I'd say everyone with an 007 is used to the camera doing fine/OK at 3200-6400, which M240 is not known for.  It never occurred to me that my M60 and S007 could be related, although come to think of it, they came to be around the same time, in fact 007 a few months later.  It would require an explanation as to why the larger number of pixels in S007 add to a better high ISO performance...  It would be very interesting to find out whether that's in fact so and why.  

PS.  Funny how a thread inevitably diverges.:)

I always thought the ISO is also has to do with some kind of a algorithm they put in... so your sensor property will be same, but the reading and interpretation of the ISO/noise etc is different... I don't know.

[davidmknoble]

On 4/27/2020 at 6:52 AM, Chaemono said:

M10M has the same pixel pitch as S3 and I’m willing to bet that the next M will have that sensor, with a color filter. 

That's a good bet, and interesting that a Monochrom would lead an M sensor as it's always been the reverse.  Yet, I love the M10M, so I'll take it and be happy!

[davidmknoble]

17 hours ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

I always thought the ISO is also has to do with some kind of a algorithm they put in... so your sensor property will be same, but the reading and interpretation of the ISO/noise etc is different... I don't know.

The ISO has a lot to deal with the noise generated reading the sensor after exposure.  The more noise when reading, the more shadow (low pixel exposure) detail is lost in that noise.  As technology progresses, the read-noise decreases and more shadows can be read.  That provides some higher ISO with no change in pixel size of the sensor.

[xiaubauu2009]

10 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

The ISO has a lot to deal with the noise generated reading the sensor after exposure.  The more noise when reading, the more shadow (low pixel exposure) detail is lost in that noise.  As technology progresses, the read-noise decreases and more shadows can be read.  That provides some higher ISO with no change in pixel size of the sensor.

ya. but the processor of the S007 is better than the M240, so it will have better signal reading than then older M240, no? hence the difference in performance even with the same sensor tech.

[davidmknoble]

5 hours ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

ya. but the processor of the S007 is better than the M240, so it will have better signal reading than then older M240, no? hence the difference in performance even with the same sensor tech.

The S007 sensor has the same pixel pitch as the M240 sensor, but otherwise they are very different sensors in terms of characteristics (ignoring size of sensor).