50/.95 to buy or not to buy

[SocialKonstruct]

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8 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

This is not the lens this thread is about.

 

The OP refers to the 7Artisans 50mm lens relative to the Noct as a substitute...

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[otto.f]

On 4/14/2020 at 1:49 PM, 01maciel said:

Whats that rumour about a new TTartisan 50mm .95 with Leica M-mount to be delivered in the next couple of weeks? It scares me that a chinese brand has the technology, knowledge and the financial power to design and to deliver this piece of hi-tec. The sample photos don't look too bad. But what's coming next? My presumption what happens next:
Soon to be expected: an improved v2, another v3 and then there is a new market leader in far east in terms of lenses. The game has already been played by the Japanese photo and watch industry some decades ago. The impact created a massive ripple in the industrial western world.

Interesting to read the first user experience or review in the LUF.

 

What is so scary about that?

[Ouroboros]

4 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Does one unscrew worse? Are screws damaged?

 

It depends on the person who's using it.   The same goes for cameras and lenses.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Ouroboros

[pgk]

Whilst many manufacturers are probably quite capable of both designing (lens design software is apparently very good these days and optical designers can ensure high performance) and building extremely high quality lenses (from any company/country), only Leica is able to charge and get a high enough price for an extremely high quality, low production product to make it highly profitable. Therefore any other manufacturer has to compete on price and has to reduce its cost to do so. Suggesting that location/ethos makes a company incapable of a high quality design or product is wishful thinking I'm afraid. Many years ago British motorcycles were hugely successful and dominated the market. Nobody could compete and make better motorcycles .....

[01maciel]

In the 70s »Made in Japan« was a synoym for crap. This has changed over time and we see the same procedure with China. TTartisan will present a crappy v1 lens, a better v2 and an excellent v3 lens for a bargain.

Let's see how it goes. Unleashed market forces drive innovation - as usual. What we can see in slow motion right now is what Schumpeter describes the creative destruction from within, incessantly destroying the old one, incessantly creating a new one.

[andybarton]

19 minutes ago, 01maciel said:

In the 70s »Made in Japan« was a synoym for crap.

Try telling that to Nikon or Canon or Sony or Toyota or...

Japan has made excellent products for decades. Japan also made lots and lots of cheap plastic toys, most of which were probably excellent in the world of cheap plastic toys. 

 

So, a little less of the insulting comments to a nation state, please.

[01maciel]

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vor 36 Minuten schrieb andybarton:

So, a little less of the insulting comments to a nation state, please.

Sorry, no insult meant to a nation. Seems to be a misunderstanding. Japan is an open and democratic country. The people I know are also nice and friendly.

What I meant is the quality of the products in the 70s.

vor 42 Minuten schrieb andybarton:

Japan also made lots and lots of cheap plastic toys

That is a good point. When I was a child in the 70s I had a few of these plastic toys. "Made in Japan" were one of my first words in english. Unfortunately, the toys broke after a while since the quality was verifiable inacceptable.

In the meantime Japan is high tech country with high quality products, they introduced Kan Ban for QA in the car industry e.g. They copied products from the US and Europe, made it better after a while and started an own innovation process. And China is on its way leaving us behind.

 

[pgk]

1 minute ago, 01maciel said:

They copied products from the US and Europe, made it better after a while and started an own innovation process. And China is on its way leaving us behind.

I am viewing this on an Apple Mac Book Air which states on its base "assembled in China". Quality is high, it works well and from a user point of view is as good as any Mac product I've used since my first Mac in 1990 - I suspect it was designed in California but effectively built in China. China is way past the 'copy' stage and producing good stuff, innovative lenses and no doubt, as you say, are already on their way to leaving us behind. But as I said above,, some products have to compete on price and Chinese lenses do so by reducing costs just like anywhere else. Personally, I'd like to see companies (from anywhere) build more long-lived, high quality equipment, like lenses, and do so as well as they can and try charging appropriately to establish themselves as high end producers. This will remove the myths which abound surrounding inabilities of some makes/areas to produce good stuff.

[james.liam]

8 hours ago, andybarton said:

So, a little less of the insulting comments to a nation state, please.

I typically step away from threads when entries are deleted but am just curious Andy, is there a reason you deleted the entire discussion, when it was a legitimate digression on quality of items from an offending "nation state"?

I'm a physician in New York City and have been dealing with the consequences of our trans-national nightmare on an hourly basis, yet discussions are now even more narrowly limited in scope?  Half-way through this pandemic I ran out of protective gear to see the sick in clinic because of a single "nation state" source cutting us off. Medicines are running short because of a "nation state" maliciously deciding to cut supplies. Are we all to pretend it is otherwise or that it is not connected to a myriad of other issues raised in the deleted entries?

Should we then restrict ourselves to a discussion on "The Best Wide-Angle Photos of the Loo" as an alternative?

[Firefly]

Kind of coming back to the OP, As the production of regular off the shelf 50mm/.95 have not escaped captivity yet we don't really know yet how good or not it may be. There seems to be some kind of consensus (that I've perceived from online comments/reviews) that these lens from 7 or TT Artisans are about 85-90% image quality wise of the equivalent Leica lens for maybe 1/20-1/30th of the price. As ever what's it worth to you personally and what my eye perceives is probably different to what yours or anyone else may perceive.

Just my 2 pence worth and happy to get shot down, regards Rob

[Herr Barnack]

1 hour ago, james.liam said:

I typically step away from threads when entries are deleted but am just curious Andy, is there a reason you deleted the entire discussion, when it was a legitimate digression on quality of items from an offending "nation state"?

I'm a physician in New York City and have been dealing with the consequences of our trans-national nightmare on an hourly basis, yet discussions are now even more narrowly limited in scope?  Half-way through this pandemic I ran out of protective gear to see the sick in clinic because of a single "nation state" source cutting us off. Medicines are running short because of a "nation state" maliciously deciding to cut supplies. Are we all to pretend it is otherwise or that it is not connected to a myriad of other issues raised in the deleted entries?

Should we then restrict ourselves to a discussion on "The Best Wide-Angle Photos of the Loo" as an alternative?

Politically motivated censorship is the bane of free nations and free people - or one of them.  Removing blatant misinformation and/or lies is one thing; censoring truth and documented facts is quite another.

Facts are facts.  History cannot be denied.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[pgk]

I like eating Salmon, but I will not buy farmed (or unsustainably fished) salmon for many ethical reasons. These do not include its flavour which is perfectly good and I would not suggest otherwise, even though I do not like the way it is farmed.

[01maciel]

vor einer Stunde schrieb james.liam:

is there a reason you deleted the entire discussion, when it was a legitimate digression on quality of items from an offending "nation state"?

I don't see any deleted posts. What do you mean?

I think I may have overreacted, sorry for that. Let's go back to the original question. Am I a candidate for the new lens? I don't know. Price and quality drive customer needs. My needs too.

[kinch123]

11 hours ago, james.liam said:

I typically step away from threads when entries are deleted but am just curious Andy, is there a reason you deleted the entire discussion, when it was a legitimate digression on quality of items from an offending "nation state"?

I'm a physician in New York City and have been dealing with the consequences of our trans-national nightmare on an hourly basis, yet discussions are now even more narrowly limited in scope?  Half-way through this pandemic I ran out of protective gear to see the sick in clinic because of a single "nation state" source cutting us off. Medicines are running short because of a "nation state" maliciously deciding to cut supplies. Are we all to pretend it is otherwise or that it is not connected to a myriad of other issues raised in the deleted entries?

Should we then restrict ourselves to a discussion on "The Best Wide-Angle Photos of the Loo" as an alternative?

Taking a wild guess based on posts of mine which have been deleted, there is some understanding amongst moderators that offending a certain country which is notorious for having massive online hate and boycott campaigns against companies which offend their patriotic sensibilities is Right Out.

This makes sound commercial sense for Leica - particularly given that they are doubly-exposed to the politics of this particular nation (strategic partnership with cellphone manufacturer + camera sales). Although it would be rather nice if this Don't Cross the Red Line Policy was spelled out directly.

Comparisons are invidious so will not go near the Leitz Family's quietly decent behaviour during similarly difficult times.

Meanwhile we can all amuse ourselves by crapping all over the paler inhabitants of US Flyover Country who do not buy Leicas and have thicker skins.

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by kinch123

[Herr Barnack]

15 minutes ago, kinch123 said:

...Meanwhile we can all amuse ourselves by crapping all over the paler inhabitants of US Flyover Country who do not buy Leicas and have thicker skins.

 

That is a prime example of a racist statement. 

Well moderators - what say you?  Or is the above okay since it does not cite inconvenient factual information regarding a certain Communist dictatorship which is responsible for a certain global pandemic?

Edited April 18, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[kinch123]

1 hour ago, Herr Barnack said:

That is a prime example of a racist statement. 

Well moderators - what say you?  Or is the above okay since it does not cite inconvenient factual information regarding a certain Communist dictatorship which is responsible for a certain global pandemic?

In the country in question, they would delete both my posts and claim it was for the latter one you just pointed out in jest :P

Meanwhile, at least 14 pro-democracy protestors arrested here this very morning on trumped up charges. Have to get them all convicted and ineligible to run in 'elections' later this year, you know. Gleichschaltung (now there's a word) proceeds apace.

[Arrow]

🙈🙉🙊

[Keith (M)]

And there was me thinking this was a thread about whether or not to buy a particular lens...  Silly boy!  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[nwphil]

On 4/17/2020 at 12:07 AM, 01maciel said:

In the 70s »Made in Japan« was a synoym for crap. This has changed over time and we see the same procedure with China. TTartisan will present a crappy v1 lens, a better v2 and an excellent v3 lens for a bargain.

Let's see how it goes. Unleashed market forces drive innovation - as usual. What we can see in slow motion right now is what Schumpeter describes the creative destruction from within, incessantly destroying the old one, incessantly creating a new one.

it's a good point, but a flawed logic - there is a whole different mentality and attitude behind each driving force....and that's the tippy-top of the iceberg.

IMO, we will somewhat better products....in a sea of crappy one's - that is coming from China

[Pyrogallol]

11 hours ago, kinch123 said:

 

Meanwhile we can all amuse ourselves by crapping all over the paler inhabitants of US Flyover Country who do not buy Leicas and have thicker skins.

 

I might be offended if I knew what a “Flyover Country” was?

Edited April 18, 2020 by Pyrogallol