Guest Nowhereman Posted April 22, 2020 Share #21 Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, convexferret said: The fact that I had seen some of those images before, years before. Thanks. I've only looked at the Schaller pictures on the M10M section of the Leica website but didn't read the "fine print", if there was any. Have Leica presented the images as being taken with the M10M, or is there a qualification of some sort to the effect that these are monochrome images of the type that can typically be made with the new camera? Also, you say that you "had seen some of those images before, years before": are you sure that they are the same images, or could it be that they are only similar to the images that you saw? Either way, I find it hard to believe that Leica would actually misrepresent these images as taken with the M10M, if that were not the case.____________________Frog Leaping photobook Edited April 22, 2020 by Nowhereman Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 22, 2020 Posted April 22, 2020 Hi Guest Nowhereman, Take a look here Any actual shots where M10M visibly outperforms M246?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
otto.f Posted April 22, 2020 Share #22 Posted April 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Nowhereman said: Overprocessed is sometimes an overused word Yes, I stated my opinion indeed. And when it’s an opinion it cannot be overused. I did not say however that I like the greyish B&W style. It depends on the subject too. What I see in Schaller’s work is that many captures are going through the same car wash, it’s a format he uses over the whole range. IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted April 22, 2020 Share #23 Posted April 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: Thanks. I've only looked at the Schaller pictures on the M10M section of the Leica website but didn't read the "fine print", if there was any. Have Leica presented the images as being taken with the M10M, or is there a qualification of some sort to the effect that these monochrome images of the type that can typically be made with the new camera? Also, you say that you "had seen some of those images before, years before": are you sure that they are the same images, or could it be that they are only similar to the images that you saw? Either way, I find it hard to believe that Leica would actually misrepresent these images at taken with the M10M, if that were not the case.____________________Frog Leaping photobook Yes, could be that Schaller visited some well-known spots to do something with the special light there, I don’t know. I know that there were several, not one, forum members here who said that they already knew these photo’s. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
convexferret Posted April 22, 2020 Share #24 Posted April 22, 2020 The video about Schaller was of him using the M10m but "some" of the images seem to be from his M246 times. At no point do I remember them saying one thing or another. Marketing ... On the subject of over processing, now that I'm here. Taking your processing beyond the typical to produce a particular look or style is, to me, perfectly reasonable. After all, many photographers from analog times such as Ralph Gibson did just that. processing and printing, be it film or digital, gives the photographer yet another opportunity to stamp their character on the work. That doesn't excuse incompetence but I'll give anyone some leeway. I happen to think that Schaller's post processing style fits his eye well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share #25 Posted April 22, 2020 In any case, as the thread starter, I just wanted to say that I followed Thorsten Overgaard method, which he applied to MM1=>M246 upgrade, but applies to any Leica upgrade: -- if I have an M246, do I really need an M10M? -- here's how M10M is different... -- but can I really see that? -- here's how you could see it, if you tried really hard... -- but... -- if you are still asking, yes, you do need the M10M! So I got mine yestrerday and will shoot it happily. I retain M246 for now unique, bespoke, and out of print rangefinder B&W video, and also for two-body B&W setup. And for now I don't have a desire to thoroughly compare them.:) 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted April 23, 2020 Share #26 Posted April 23, 2020 8 hours ago, setuporg said: In any case, as the thread starter, I just wanted to say that I followed Thorsten Overgaard method, which he applied to MM1=>M246 upgrade, but applies to any Leica upgrade: -- if I have an M246, do I really need an M10M? -- here's how M10M is different... -- but can I really see that? -- here's how you could see it, if you tried really hard... -- but... -- if you are still asking, yes, you do need the M10M! So I got mine yestrerday and will shoot it happily. I retain M246 for now unique, bespoke, and out of print rangefinder B&W video, and also for two-body B&W setup. And for now I don't have a desire to thoroughly compare them.:) Yeah, and Overgaard is not known for spending money in a very usefull and sensible way. See his camera bags starting at 2000 bucks for instance. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share #27 Posted April 23, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) We'd probably be in the Fuji forum if we followed that logically...:) 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
strohscw Posted April 23, 2020 Share #28 Posted April 23, 2020 vor 10 Stunden schrieb setuporg: In any case, as the thread starter, I just wanted to say that I followed Thorsten Overgaard method, which he applied to MM1=>M246 upgrade, but applies to any Leica upgrade: -- if I have an M246, do I really need an M10M? -- here's how M10M is different... -- but can I really see that? -- here's how you could see it, if you tried really hard... -- but... -- if you are still asking, yes, you do need the M10M! So I got mine yestrerday and will shoot it happily. I retain M246 for now unique, bespoke, and out of print rangefinder B&W video, and also for two-body B&W setup. And for now I don't have a desire to thoroughly compare them.:) I see it like You. You do not really need the upgrade. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share #29 Posted April 23, 2020 8 hours ago, strohscw said: I see it like You. You do not really need the upgrade. Too late, see the M10M Images thread!:) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted April 24, 2020 Share #30 Posted April 24, 2020 13 hours ago, setuporg said: Too late, see the M10M Images thread!:) He meant that you bought it for fun 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share #31 Posted April 24, 2020 2 hours ago, otto.f said: He meant that you bought it for fun Haven't we all! 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted April 24, 2020 Share #32 Posted April 24, 2020 On 4/8/2020 at 11:56 PM, Likaleica said: +1. Exactly! To be fair, the OP has outlined multiple times what he is looking for so he can make up his own mind. If you read between the lines, he doubts that some of the claims being made in some of the reviews will translate to a worth upgrading for him for his use case. You probably have more in common than you think. I think you and JAPV are completely missing the point and not being particularly helpful and/or just being argumentative? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted April 24, 2020 Share #33 Posted April 24, 2020 2 hours ago, paulsydaus said: To be fair, the OP has outlined multiple times what he is looking for so he can make up his own mind. If you read between the lines, he doubts that some of the claims being made in some of the reviews will translate to a worth upgrading for him for his use case. You probably have more in common than you think. I think you and JAPV are completely missing the point and not being particularly helpful and/or just being argumentative? Sorry, I think you misunderstood me. The OP was trying to gather opinions on which camera is "better," M246 or M10M. Clearly, the technical specifications of the M10M are improved over M246, so for a lot of people that would make the M10M a "better" camera, but I don't think that's what he meant. What I responded to, which is what I think JAAPV meant, was what qualities of a camera allow you to make a better picture, because that probably is the point of getting a better camera. I think one of the greatest photographs of all time is Henri Cartier-Bresson's Derrière la Gare St. Lazare, but it is unsharp and lacks shadow detail. It would fail as a good photograph for anyone measuring by those parameters. So, other than the technical specifications, which anyone can look up, "better" is highly subjective. Hence, to answer the question, as JAAPV said, "Start by defining 'superior' in a photographic sense." I love the M10M, which for me is "better" than the M246 mostly because of the ergonomics and features. I don't care about the increased mp count (would rather it had stayed 24, frankly). But I don't think the M10M allows me to make better pictures that the M246 or any other camera. I think the OP has subsequently answered his own question because I believe I read somewhere that he ordered or has taken delivery on a M10M. By the way, please feel free to look back through all of my posts and I don't think you will find one that is unhelpful or argumentative.* To me, this forum is a place where people from all over the world with vastly different experiences can come together to discuss all aspects of Leica photography, comment, and learn from each other. As soon as a thread goes negative I generally jump off and I wonder about people who anonymously write angry or condescending posts. Life is too short to get involved with negative emotional energy here. (*other than one early post where I responded to a member who was very angrily berating another member's decision to not use the rangefinder due to failing visual acuity) 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calijax Posted April 30, 2020 Share #34 Posted April 30, 2020 Without actually answering the OP's question... I chose to purchase the M10M over the prior generations because: 1) Form factor (thickness) is a huge draw to the M-system and I greatly appreciate the tiny difference in body size 2) I use Leica fotos/wifi frequently 3) I prefer BW when shooting in low light. The M10M high iso capability makes it a great low-light carry 4) I share batteries and chargers with my M10 5) More resolution? Sure why not!?! I notice the difference over my M10 (in the DNG's, at least) 6) We probably have ~5yrs until the next model is released (this helped me justify steep price) Things I didn’t expect: 7) The quiet shutter is awesome 😎 Aesthetically the camera looks nicer with slight matte finish, fewer silver pieces, and minimal markings Things I don’t like: 9) Touchscreen – I’m left eye dominant and keep hitting the touchscreen w my nose 10) Price – hot diggity! With all that said, my conclusion is that the images are not "dramatically" better. It's just my favorite camera to use. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
analog-digital Posted April 30, 2020 Share #35 Posted April 30, 2020 Am 9.4.2020 um 00:57 schrieb setuporg: E.g.: here we have more details in the shadows. This is not necessarily a question of the camera, but of the operating technology. How do I use existing light and shadow! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted May 1, 2020 Share #36 Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) Like you use light and shadow on any other digital camera or on any transparency film?____________________Frog Leaping photobook Edited May 1, 2020 by Nowhereman Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted May 1, 2020 Share #37 Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) On 4/8/2020 at 11:45 PM, setuporg said: Nah, I'd rather see some images by anyone who has both cameras and believes that M10M is superior, in whatever sense they use it. There were many people who already said that the new M10M is better, and I'd simply like to see, how. When you purchased your MM1, you had nothing to compare it to. Yet, you took the plunge. Rather than trying to compare the M10M to previous Monochroms, my suggestion is to just look at it for what it is. If the qualities and specs fit your criteria, buy it and learn to work with it. Otherwise, stick with what you have. With very little effort you can find reviews for the M10M which include downloadable DNG files. I believe they are even available from the Leica AG website. Try working with some and decide for yourself if it's what you want. You seem to want M10M owners on this forum to give you a sales pitch and convince you to buy one. That's not our function. (Reading all through this thread I see you have purchased the M10M now. I hope you enjoy it's beauty and function.) Edited May 1, 2020 by fotografr 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinch123 Posted May 15, 2020 Share #38 Posted May 15, 2020 On 4/9/2020 at 8:22 AM, setuporg said: BTW, I'm of course inclined to believe you Jeff, especially with your wonderful writeup, http://www.jeffreyhughes.net/photography/leica_m10_monochrom.html -- but I wonder whether we experience a collective GAS here. Say without knowing about the new sensor or high-resolution, how can we be sure? Nothing beats a side by side. I hadn’t seen this before. Thanks for the link. And what a wonderful review! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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