Why no bargains for old M film bodies?

[Graham (G4FUJ)]

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53 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

I am so used to using a handheld meter that I found the blinking lights of the M6 meter distracting, forever telling you to make minor adjustments to the exposure. I do have some clip on meters I can use. The readings from them all are close to each other and to my other meters, given that they have different acceptance angles.

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Which Weston model is that on the right?

[Pyrogallol]

15 minutes ago, Graham (G4FUJ) said:

Which Weston model is that on the right?

It’s a Metraphot. This one has Weston as well as ASA and DIN scales.  I understand that Metraphot made all the Leicameters?

i once left one of these meters next to a car battery, it stopped working.

see https://leicahistorica.pagesperso-orange.fr/lightmeters.html

Edited March 30, 2020 by Pyrogallol

[SocialKonstruct]

5 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

It’s a Metraphot. This one has Weston as well as ASA and DIN scales, later ones dropped the Weston scale. I understand that Metraphot made all the Leicameters?

i once left one of these meters next to a car battery, it stopped working.

see https://leicahistorica.pagesperso-orange.fr/lightmeters.html

I use my cell phone as a light meter ;D

[Mr.Prime]

49 minutes ago, SocialKonstruct said:

I use my cell phone as a light meter ;D

This is the ultimate ‘finger’ gesture to the threat of cell phone cameras taking over 

[pippy]

20 hours ago, SocialKonstruct said:

Why am I having a super hard time to find a film M body at a bargain price?...

For precisely the same reason as you would have a hard time trying to find an old Ferrari at a bargain price.

As Mnutzer said earlier; if you want to use something other than a Leica there are similar period alternatives which can often be found cheap-as-chips but even when they were nowhere near as sought-after as they are today Leica M bodies were never at 'bargain-basement' levels.

Philip.

Edited March 30, 2020 by pippy

[bags27]

13 minutes ago, Mr.Prime said:

This is the ultimate ‘finger’ gesture to the threat of cell phone cameras taking over 

I wonder if it's not the opposite. Maybe it shows the cell phone can be of use to stand alone cameras. Ditto with dark room. Apps like the Massive Dev Chart are fantastically helpful...in the dark room.  Cell phone is a great tool....in the service of traditional photography.... (I hope!)

 

[AndreasG]

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Pyrogallol:

I understand that Metraphot made all the Leicameters?

Pretty close, the maker of the Leicameter was Metrawatt/Germany.

[Ko.Fe.]

If you couldn't find M3 after CLA under 1200$, it doesn't mean here isn't any...

[adan]

On 3/29/2020 at 5:15 PM, SocialKonstruct said:

Why am I having a super hard time to find a film M body at a bargain price? Even the fabled M3 is still 1200 dollars :o!

Because a camera is just a box - it is the lenses that can fit on it that give it value.

One can mount a 2020 90mm Summilux-M on a 1954 M3 and it will function as well as it does on a 2020 M10 or MA or MP. Maybe better, given the M3's higher viewfinder magnification (better focus precision). That can't be said for today's Canon EOS lenses on a 1960 Canon P (or even a 1986 Canon New F-1) or a Nikkor-G on a Nikon F through F3 (no aperture control).

Not to mention a little "retro-chic;" Leica nameplate;  historical value; and the fact that even the most common M's are s-l-o-w-l-y disappearing with age (as are we all ) and acquiring rarity value.

It is called "what the market will bear."

There are a few film cameras out there that can use M lenses, and cost a bit less (and perform well in many cases): Leica's own film CL from the 70s (and its Minolta counterpart); Minolta CLE from the 1980s. If all you need is a box that holds film on one end and an M lens on the other.

There are also some from the early 2000s (after the patent on the M-mount expired), although those can often cost as much as a vintage Leica M (thus demonstrating my first sentence): Voigtlanders, Zeiss-Ikon ZM, Konica Hexar RF.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

My "bargain" Leica came when I was looking in every camera store around, remember them. Came across it just by luck, a late M2, really beat up appearance, couple of dents, extreme meter scratches, missing some covering. But I had been using Leicas for a few years, and had a friend who was a specialist in Leica repair. But with all the bad looks the shutter sounded right on all speeds. When I said I'd buy it the owner of the store came out and asked if I was sure, the price $125, which was real good for the late '70s. Oh it didn't need a shutter job for 15 years.

[Ko.Fe.]

9 hours ago, adan said:

Because a camera is just a box - it is the lenses that can fit on it that give it value.

One can mount a 2020 90mm Summilux-M on a 1954 M3 and it will function as well as it does on a 2020 M10 or MA or MP. Maybe better, given the M3's higher viewfinder magnification (better focus precision). That can't be said for today's Canon EOS lenses on a 1960 Canon P (or even a 1986 Canon New F-1) or a Nikkor-G on a Nikon F through F3 (no aperture control).

Not to mention a little "retro-chic;" Leica nameplate;  historical value; and the fact that even the most common M's are s-l-o-w-l-y disappearing with age (as are we all ) and acquiring rarity value.

It is called "what the market will bear."

There are a few film cameras out there that can use M lenses, and cost a bit less (and perform well in many cases): Leica's own film CL from the 70s (and its Minolta counterpart); Minolta CLE from the 1980s. If all you need is a box that holds film on one end and an M lens on the other.

There are also some from the early 2000s (after the patent on the M-mount expired), although those can often cost as much as a vintage Leica M (thus demonstrating my first sentence): Voigtlanders, Zeiss-Ikon ZM, Konica Hexar RF.

 

Cosina made Bessas and Ikon are discontinued from production while ago. So is Hexar.

If no new items made anymore, but here is still demand, prices goes up.

All of non Leica cameras you have mentioned will accurately focus and take exposures as long as they are in working order. 

Bessa cameras might be still supported. I doubt here is any support for too old CL, CLE from Leica and only very few are willing to service them.

 

[Steven Seven]

I was frustrated as well, trying to find a decent M6 for $2K. And eventually had to give up and got a mint M6-TTL for $2800. Because of this I couldn't afford 35mm Leica lens anymore, so I settled on a Voightlander Nokton, which I now am a fan of I almost bought a Zeiss Icon ZM instead, and to this day I wonder what that camera is like.

[andrew01]

Don’t be put off by flaking vulcanite.  Almost all M2s and M3s will have this problem if the vulcanite is still original.  The Aki Asahi 4008 replacement costs $22 and looks identical to the original.  I purchased myself and gave to my local repairer to change at the time of service.  Now the camera looks like new.

M3s will never be cheap since they are the nicest M camera out of all of them to shoot.  If you want a Leica bargain, look at getting a Leicaflex.  

[plaidshirts]

On 3/29/2020 at 6:01 PM, RayD28 said:

I'm curious, what would be a bargain price for an M3 with good leatherette, proper shutter speeds, and little or no dust in the view finder?  

In 2017 I got a late serial number (1.1mil+) M3 with a Rigid Summicron and an MR meter all in excellent working cosmetic condition for $1000.

I think the market is due for an adjustment as prices have doubled since then. 

[RayD28]

19 minutes ago, plaidshirts said:

In 2017 I got a late serial number (1.1mil+) M3 with a Rigid Summicron and an MR meter all in excellent working cosmetic condition for $1000.

I think the market is due for an adjustment as prices have doubled since then. 

Private sale?  That is one heck of a bargain. 

[plaidshirts]

Just now, RayD28 said:

Private sale?  That is one heck of a bargain. 

No, eBay of all places. 

[yeeper]

Maybe this will all die down when Covid is over and many folks who took up film photography during the shutdown see the novelty wear off.  I lucked out and got a mint M6 0.58 TTL two years ago on eBay for $1700.  Those are double the price now.  I'm glad I didn't sell my M6 Classic at the time.

[logan2z]

3 hours ago, yeeper said:

Maybe this will all die down when Covid is over and many folks who took up film photography during the shutdown see the novelty wear off.  I lucked out and got a mint M6 0.58 TTL two years ago on eBay for $1700.  Those are double the price now.  I'm glad I didn't sell my M6 Classic at the time.

Prices of the M6 in particular have really taken off.  I routinely see them for sale for well over $3000.  M3/M4 are around half that.

[Paulus]

Am 30.3.2020 um 01:15 schrieb SocialKonstruct:

Why am I having a super hard time to find a film M body at a bargain price? Even the fabled M3 is still 1200 dollars :o!

Buy a new MP, you can sell it in twenty years for...Everytime I sold my MP I never lost money, providing you keep it more than 15 years.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ShivaYash]

Prices continue to rise. In 2015 I picked up a M6 ti classic for 600 aud!