(4x) 50mm options | Which one would you choose?

[pippy]

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8 minutes ago, 01af said:

...The significance of lens signatures usually is overrated. I'm not saying they don't exist. But in most cases, they are too subtle to make a perceptible difference (unless making a direct comparison). Just use what you have! The signature of your photographs will depend on your abilities as a photographer, not on the peculiarities of the lens design...

This is all very good advice - especially if (as I suspect might be the case) - you are fairly new to the differences between Leica and Zeiss rendering.

As it happens I have made back-to-back comparisons with LOADS of my 50mm lenses purely out of academic interest and to understand them better but the bottom line is that regardless of whether I use, say, a '50s M-mount Elmar; an '80s Summicron; a decidedly quirky 7Artisans f1.1 or even (as touched upon in an earlier post) an old Russian Jupiter-8 no-one but myself has been able to spot the lens' particular "signature" in any final print!

Certainly there are photographs which I know could only have been taken on the 7A (sadly I don't own a Noctilux!) but otherwise? For me when choosing which lens to lug about with me it mainly comes down to the trade-off between performance/size/weight/finder blockage - which is why (IMO) the series IV Summicron really is hard to beat all-else being equal.

Philip.

[lct]

Claiming that the character of a lens is not important is like saying that a Stradivari and a Yamaha violin are the same thing. Both need a good musician to make good music but at the end of the road only one will sound like a Strad .

[Ko.Fe.]

32 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Understand and I agree. But an F/1.5, for example, for a particular purpose, can make the difference. 

I'm at low budget and low ISO bottom :). I use Jupiter-3 50 1.5 which I prefer over 50mm Crons, 50/2 Planar and Nokton 50 1.5 ASPH. I went trough all of them. 

The least preferable lens for street and documentary for me is 50 1.5 ASPH. It is not fast focusing lens even with its short focus scale. And it can't be modified as Jupiter-3 and Cron 50 III I still have, for focusing. I liked 50 1.5 ASPH VM for bw on film and on digital. Colors on digital were not Leica. Nor I liked Planar for colors on digital. Worn out, still good inside Cron Rigid was superior to both Cosina made lenses on digital for color. IMHO. Just like any Leica M lens I have tried on digital M, it was giving colors I liked, SOOC. Not Voigt, nor Zeiss Cosina lenses were giving it. In opposite, I wasn't impressed with their colors SOOC. 

After handling these non-Leica lenses, I just appreciate how Leica lenses are build. Not always ideal, but not as odd as Cosina, Zeiss choice for 50 1.5 ASPH VM and 50 2 ZM. IMO. 

 

[Harpomatic]

7 minutes ago, lct said:

Claiming that the character of a lens is not important is like saying that a Stradivari and a Yamaha violin are the same thing. Both need a good musician to make good music but at the end of the road only one will sound like a Strad .

It takes a master to make the Stradivari play to it’s strengths. Are you a master of photography? Does your work really reach such a high standard that a lens signature will lend it the finishing touch?

I’m not insinuating anything about the quality of your photography, just asking for reflection: are you obsessing about the rendering and ignoring the content? I certainly believe that before I can play a Stradivari lens to its fullest I have many, many more years to practice and still this won’t necessarily make me an extraordinary photographer. But that’s what I’m trying to work towards. The lens is a tool: get a really good one and practice, practice, practice. The Stradivari will give you that 1% more when you’ll be perfect in the execution.

[ianman]

If you want a small, light, zero VF blockage, cheap, fast Leica 50mm lens with bags of character... seriously try a Summar. It's not everyones idea of a great performance lens but the rendering can be just as if not more beautiful than any other 50mm.

[pippy]

3 minutes ago, lct said:

Claiming that the character of a lens is not important is like saying that a Stradivari and a Yamaha violin are the same thing. Both need a good musician to make good music but at the end of the road only one will sound like a Strad .

I'm not sure if you are commenting on my post slightly earlier but if you are than I agree with you. Mostly.

But;

"In a particularly famous test on a BBC Radio 3 programme in 1977, the violinists Isaac Stern and Pinchas Zucherman and the violin expert and dealer Charles Beare tried to distinguish between the "Chaconne" Stradivarius, a 1739 Guarneri del Gesú, an 1846 Vuillaume, and a 1976 British violin played behind a screen by a professional soloist. The two violinists were allowed to play all the instruments first. None of the listeners identified more than two of the four instruments. Two of the listeners identified the 20th-century violin as the Stradivarius..."

Note that at the time of the 'test' the "British violin" was a mere 1 year old.

Pretty much 100% of the people who see my photographs are, absolutely, visually aware folks but, equally, I'd bet that pretty much 100% of them don't care about the difference in signature between a Sonnar and a Summicron. They might see it if I was to point it out to them but do they care? Not like we photographers do.

I've never held that the character of a lens is unimportant; it's a large factor in why I've bought - and continue to own - the lenses I still have and, probably, explains why I don't much care for Zeiss optics for my Leicas - superb as I know them to be - so much so that I've never bought one. I do have various non-Zeiss Sonnar designs - and Biogons and all the rest as well - but they are not often my first-choice when going out.

Philip.

 

 

[a.noctilux]

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30 minutes ago, ianman said:

If you want a small, light, zero VF blockage, cheap, fast Leica 50mm lens with bags of character... seriously try a Summar. It's not everyones idea of a great performance lens but the rendering can be just as if not more beautiful than any other 50mm.

 

Ian, you are quite right, I love the nice character lens Summar, but it's not offered new anymore,

as stated above, Dennis wants brand new 50mm.

 

Funny thing...

I've seen that Leica used the same simple double-gauss for the new Summarit-M as the 1930's Summar ( that I do like ! )

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not as long as Summar (uncollapsed), maybe new glass types permit that

 

Summar 5cm collapsible in most case, even if Rigid Summar can be found very expensive

Edited February 24, 2020 by a.noctilux

[a.noctilux]

17 minutes ago, ianman said:

If you want a small, light, zero VF blockage, cheap, fast Leica 50mm lens with bags of character... seriously try a Summar. It's not everyones idea of a great performance lens but the rendering can be just as if not more beautiful than any other 50mm.

Finding one Summar 5cm in good shape can be difficult, though.

I happen to use for some years now those lovely character Summar mainly with screw mount Leica,

one Summar had been coated, the other one just not coated as original

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[ianman]

13 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Ian, you are quite right, I love the nice character lens Summar, but it's not offered new anymore,

as stated above, Dennis wants brand new 50mm.

Ah oui mais.... in post #31 it was updated to:

6 hours ago, Dennis said:

I'm totally fine to buy a second-hand lens

😉😊😊😇

[a.noctilux]

 

😇

Sorry, Ian

...

Dennis

... post #3 or whichever your choice, I'm sure you will use it very well.

 

[pippy]

34 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Funny thing...

I've seen that Leica used the same simple double-gauss for the new Summarit-M as the 1930's Summar ( that I do like ! )

Which, in an intriguing and strangely roundabout way, brings us back to the original Zeiss Planar...

Philip.

Edited February 24, 2020 by pippy

[ianman]

1 minute ago, pippy said:

Which, in an intriguing and strangely roundabout way, brings us back to the original Zeiss Planar...

So many threads seem to be caught in Saṃsāra  😊

[a.noctilux]

6 minutes ago, pippy said:

Which, in an intriguing and strangely roundabout way, brings us back to the original Zeiss Planar...

Philip.

Indeed, Paul Rudolph created the Planar in 1896 for Carl Zeiss

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1896 , Zeiss Planar

[pippy]

7 minutes ago, ianman said:

 So many threads seem to be caught in Saṃsāra  😊

...which is a nice thought!...

I wish my own Summar could somehow be reborn just as it was when originally crafted but, unfortunately, for that to happen it will have to endure "Ordeal by Fire"...

P.

Edited February 25, 2020 by pippy

[a.noctilux]

We are awakening Zeiss/Leitzca war again ⚡🌈

[tomasis7]

1 hour ago, Harpomatic said:

It takes a master to make the Stradivari play to it’s strengths. Are you a master of photography? Does your work really reach such a high standard that a lens signature will lend it the finishing touch?

I’m not insinuating anything about the quality of your photography, just asking for reflection: are you obsessing about the rendering and ignoring the content? I certainly believe that before I can play a Stradivari lens to its fullest I have many, many more years to practice and still this won’t necessarily make me an extraordinary photographer. But that’s what I’m trying to work towards. The lens is a tool: get a really good one and practice, practice, practice. The Stradivari will give you that 1% more when you’ll be perfect in the execution.

you sound ignorant. 

its not my problem if you cannot perceive any difference. Bad eyes are your loss. But you dont have tell everyone that you know as much as everyone else. That's old horse beating ad nauseam.

If you really enjoy to drive Tesla to B from A, let other enjoy Ferrari v12, for gods sake! No need for your jealousy. 

High prices of Leica has reason and I even recommended the cheapest Leica lens: Summarit which looks perfect for me. 

 

[Dennis]

3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

check out the seller - the Hong Kong and Japanese sellers

Thanks for the feedback, useful information. Where can I find them HK and JAP sellers? Is there a list/link or directory, about trusty (or even authorized) Leica sellers you recommend?

[Dennis]

3 hours ago, pippy said:

IV Summicron

Is this lens available new? I guess BH has another version? No idea

3 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

The least preferable lens for street and documentary for me is 50 1.5 ASPH

@Ko.Fe. Why you say so? Are we talking about this lens?

 

2 hours ago, pippy said:

Pretty much 100% of the people who see my photographs are, absolutely, visually aware folks but, equally, I'd bet that pretty much 100% of them don't care about the difference in signature between a Sonnar and a Summicron

they don't care ... 😂I'm sure about it

2 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Dennis

... post #3 or whichever your choice, I'm sure you will use it very well.

 

Thank you 🙏

 

1 hour ago, tomasis7 said:

High prices of Leica has reason and I even recommended the cheapest Leica lens: Summarit which looks perfect for me. 

That's why my choices are Summarit or Planar now, I see a few cons and more pro for both. It's like this: if I get a Planar, I'll be 100% happy and I will maybe get another 50mm in the future, or exchange it for another 50 ... But I feel that if I buy the Summarit, it could last forever 

[RayD28]

I'm a novice guitar player with 25 years of experience.  I learned after two years that yes, a better guitar can make your "sound" more pleasing.  My playing did not get better overnight, but I drove away fewer family members when I played.  I believe nicer cameras and lenses can do the same.  But, it's skill and work that brings out the best in a musical instrument and camera.  I'm not blessed with skill musically or photographically so I need all the help I can get.  

About the OP's dilemma, since used is an option, I'd personally get the best lens I can afford and plan to keep.  If I can't afford what I want, when the price difference is a few hundred dollars, I forego expensive dinners for a few months and then get what I really want.  I personally hate handwringing about whether I should trade this for that.  I traded one Leica lens in an upgrade and that lens was the best I could afford at the time.  I should have waited and saved a few extra hundreds of dollars and then bought the lens I really wanted.  

Strictly my two cents.  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Ko.Fe.]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

Is this lens available new? I guess BH has another version? No idea

@Ko.Fe. Why you say so? Are we talking about this lens?

 

they don't care ... 😂I'm sure about it

Thank you 🙏

 

That's why my choices are Summarit or Planar now, I see a few cons and more pro for both. It's like this: if I get a Planar, I'll be 100% happy and I will maybe get another 50mm in the future, or exchange it for another 50 ... But I feel that if I buy the Summarit, it could last forever 

Yes, this lens. I provided my experience and opinion about this lens.

But I’m more into street and reportage, not into artistic shots. This lens is sharp, no focus shifts wide open, but purple fringing wide open, more than from Jupiter-3 on my M-E and I didn’t liked it on faces. And bokeh, at least in bw is neutral.Good thing, IMO.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Ko.Fe.