35 F/2 Summicron - Vignetting

[Nachtmsk]

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Hi,

I'm testing out an old 35mm Summicron f/2 that I got second hand back in the 80's.  It's a "Made in Canada" lens though I don't think that makes much of a difference.

I'm noticing wide open, the edges vignette a fair amount.

Does this seem about 'normal' ? How much of a difference do you think a newer 35 ASP lens would make?

Attached a photo I took today. Unprocessed aside from saving the camera DNG to a JPG.

Thanks,
Mike

 

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[lawman]

15 minutes ago, Nachtmsk said:

Hi,

I'm testing out an old 35mm Summicron f/2 that I got second hand back in the 80's.  It's a "Made in Canada" lens though I don't think that makes much of a difference.

I'm noticing wide open, the edges vignette a fair amount.

Does this seem about 'normal' ? How much of a difference do you think a newer 35 ASP lens would make?

Attached a photo I took today. Unprocessed aside from saving the camera DNG to a JPG.

Thanks,
Mike

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

What (if any) lens shade and/or filter did you use?

[Nachtmsk]

4 minutes ago, lawman said:

What (if any) lens shade and/or filter did you use?

Good question.  12585h

No filters.

https://www.leicashop.com/vintage_en/12585h-hood-35-50-f-leica-sku31568-18.html

[lawman]

Interesting - I have a type 4 made in Canada which came with a rectangular plastic hood. What happens when you shoot without the hood? 

[lct]

1 hour ago, Nachtmsk said:

Does this seem about 'normal'

Depends on the version of the lens and the aperture you chose for the picture. Could be about normal at f/2 with an old version but i would remove the hood as suggested above and see what happens.

Edited January 31, 2020 by lct

[shirubadanieru]

Old lens vignette a bit more, looks OK to me though. And regarding the asph lens, unless you want very sharp, modern rendering I would avoid it. It’s almost twice the weight and size, and to my eyes has a boring rendering. I would rate 35mm summicron lens as below:

1. 35mm f2 8e (v1)

2. 35mm f2 7e (v4) —> yours

3. Summaron 35mm f2.8 (not an f2 but still better than most and as tiny as v1)

4. 35mm f2 ASPH

5. 35mm f2 6e (v2/3)

 just my opinion but hope it helps.

Edited January 31, 2020 by shirubadanieru

[Nachtmsk]

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54 minutes ago, lawman said:

Interesting - I have a type 4 made in Canada which came with a rectangular plastic hood. What happens when you shoot without the hood? 

I tested without the hood, but only by looking at screen in camera. I'll do a more thorough test to see what happens. Thanks.

[Nachtmsk]

9 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

Old lens vignette a bit more, looks OK to me though. And regarding the asph lens, unless you want very sharp, modern rendering I would avoid it. It’s almost twice the weight and size, and to my eyes has a boring rendering. I would rate 35mm summicron lens as below:

1. 35mm f2 8e (v1)

2. 35mm f2 7e (v4) —> yours

3. Summaron 35mm f2.8 (not an f2 but still better than most and as tiny as v1)

4. 35mm f2 ASPH

5. 35mm f2 6e (v2/3)

 just my opinion but hope it helps.

Thanks very much, that's very helpful.

Mike

 

[a.noctilux]

Hood 12585 is a bit tricky for Summicron 35mm.

Some has marked on the hood 2/35 and some not, just a blank at the place.

If engraved "2/35" is only for the first version 35 Summicron (so called 8 elements) and the second (6 elements).

 

But when used 12585 on 2/35 version IV (seven elements) vignetting at all aperture in my experiences, even if engraved "2/35" on the hood !

The right hood is the one which comes (when new) with the Summicron 35 version IV , #12524 (this one from Wiki )  or newer design #12526 (for asph. model).

Edited February 1, 2020 by a.noctilux

[Nachtmsk]

Just now, a.noctilux said:

Hood 12585 is a bit tricky for Summicron 35mm.

Some has marked on the hood 2/35 and some not, just a blank at the place.

If engraved "2/35" is only for the first version 35 Summicron (so called 8 elements) and the second (6 elements).

 

But when used 12585 on 2/35 version IV (seven elements) vignetting at all aperture in my experiences, even if engraved "2/35" on the hood !

The right hood is the one which comes (when new) with the Summicron 35 version IV , #12524 or newer design #12526 (for asph. model).

------------

Yes, my hood is marked for both 2/35 and 2/50. I will try in the morning without the hood. As others have also suggested, that might be the problem all along. Thanks for your input.
Mike

 

[lct]

I'm pretty sure my 12585 hood doesn't cause vignetting on my 35/2 v4 but you piqued my curiosity guys so i will check tomorrow.

[lct]

Just did it and a.noctilux was right as always . My 12585 hood with "1:2/35" script does cause vignetting at f/2 on my Summicron-M 35/2 v4, German copy. I did not do the test on my old Canadian copy but i see no reason why it would behave differently. The regular 12524 hood and its later clone 12526 work fine though as expected. Same for the superb 12504 clip-on metal vented hood or its nice Chinese copy i have (checked too) but they make less shade obviously. 

Edited February 1, 2020 by lct

[adan]

I suspect that on film, the 12585 (introduced 1963) usually results/resulted in no significant vignetting problems with 35mm lenses.

Because unless one goes to the trouble to file out a personal negative carrier for "black border" prints or scans, the full frame is usually cropped slightly by: slide mounts, regular negative holders, scanner film holders, or machine-prints. About 1mm, all around.

And, of course, the 35mm framelines crop a little themselves - final pictures cropped for "what the box showed you" will not include the darkest corners either. (something for the "testers" to test). Only once the M9 arrived could everyone easily and consistently see the whole 24x36 image.

Thus Leica felt safe in adding the "1:2/35" designation - at the time (whenever that was).

Edited February 1, 2020 by adan

[lct]

12585 and 12585H hoods were made prior to the Summicron 35/2 v4 if memory serves me well. They were replaced by the plastic clip-on vented hood # 12538 (pic) which was intended for the Summicron 50/2 v4 only then. As suggested by a.noctilux above, i suspect the "1:2/35" engraving was aimed at earlier Summicron 35/2 versions than v4.

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[tommonego@gmail.com]

I have a 12585 hood that I bought for a 35 f2.8 Summaron, I traded that in for a 35 Summicron (mid '70s don't remember the model) but it vignetted on that lens, mentioned this to the guy whole had a Leica repair service in the city where I was living. He put it on a lathe and took a small amount off the front of the hood. This was fine with the Summicron and the 35 Summilux I traded Summicron for. This hood only has the 35 f2.8 and f3.5 lenses listed as well as f2 - f3.5 for 50's.

[Pyrogallol]

It’s ok on my v3 Summicron and I print the whole negative with a black border and bits of the sprocket holes showing.

Correction - I just looked back at a couple of prints I posted in another topic and there is a bit of cut off in the corners, but then darkroom workers often burn in the corners a bit anyway and both of these pictures had the sky burnt in.

While on the subject, is there any difference between a 12585 and a 12585H ?

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Pyrogallol

[Nachtmsk]

I  tested my 35mm F/2 (don't know how to tell exactly but I would guess v4) with and without the hood.  I had assumed it was the lens vignetting since the hood has the lens printed on it. Sure enough, the lens does catch the hood around the edges. 
Good to know and thanks to everyone who responded and made tests.  Glad to hear my lens is ok. As I mentioned, I bought it in the late 80's, I think for about $400 or so. It's in pretty good shape so quite a bargain, probably even for the late 80's. I think I probably got a better deal because it says "Made in Canada". 

[lct]

My first Summicron 35/2 v4 was an early copy from 1979 with "tiger claw" focus tab. They were all made in Canada at this stage if memory serves. Was considered one of the very best 35mm lenses on film then. On digital, the lens is prone to vignetting wide open, even sans hood, at least on the M240. Couple of boring test pics with and without 12585 hood on M240 below. Vignetting not corrected in PP. Better choose a wider hood for this lens definitely.
With hood: https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WvbvVqm/0/c681adae/X3/i-WvbvVqm-X3.jpg
Sans hood: https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MsjP4bf/0/1bfcae42/X3/i-MsjP4bf-X3.jpg

Edit: Shot with a late 35/2 v4 made in Germany. Lens has been 6-bit coded but coding does nothing to adjust vignetting on either M240 or digital CL. Same on many (all?) M lenses though.

Edited February 2, 2020 by lct

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[Jean-Michel]

15 hours ago, Nachtmsk said:

I  tested my 35mm F/2 (don't know how to tell exactly but I would guess v4) with and without the hood.  I had assumed it was the lens vignetting since the hood has the lens printed on it. Sure enough, the lens does catch the hood around the edges. 
Good to know and thanks to everyone who responded and made tests.  Glad to hear my lens is ok. As I mentioned, I bought it in the late 80's, I think for about $400 or so. It's in pretty good shape so quite a bargain, probably even for the late 80's. I think I probably got a better deal because it says "Made in Canada". 

And be happy to have a lens made where it was designed: Midland, Ontario, Canada. 🙂