Macro lens for scanning film w DSLR

[AceVentura1986]

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Hello, all. Don’t think I’ve ever posted on this sub forum; I usually limit my posts to the Monochrom forum. Anyway, as the title implies, I’m interested in acquiring a Leica film camera and thereafter scanning the negatives with my Canon 6D but I don’t have a macro lens. 

Given that I’ll have to buy an M6 to get started, I’d rather not also have to buy a macro lens too so I’ve been considering extension tubes for either my Canon 50mm f/1.4 or my Canon 85mm f/1.8. Does anyone have experience with these? Will extension tubes on either the 85 or the 50 provide the magnification necessary to completely photograph a 35mm negative? Will the image be as good as with a macro lens? Finally, should I get the Canon or Kenko tunes? 
 

Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. 

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[zeitz]

I have tested several lenses for close up work.  The best one I found is a Leitz Focotar-2 50mm f4.5.  Being an enlarger lens it is sharp close up, has a flat field and no discernible vignetting.  I also think you would do better with a bellows with a film holder attachment than with extension tubes.  The Leitz lens would probably need an adapter depending on the bellows selected.  Focotar-2 lenses still command a price in the $300 range.

[marchyman]

I use a canon 50mm f/1.8 with a cheap extension tube set and a 3d printed slide holder to make slide copies.  I use a scanner for film because I never made a holder to keep the film flat enough to use with the DSLR.   But to answer your question, a 50 mm lens and about 20 mm of extension gave me a good view for 35mm slide copying.  You do have to play some games to set the aperture of the lens -- I use f/8.  The lens default of wide open leaves you with a DoF that is way too small and with my cheapie extension tubes there is no way the camera can control the aperture.

An enlarger lens if available would probably be a better choice.  I had the 50 f/1.8 and didn't want to buy something else.

[marchyman]

Edit to the above: I use the 50 with an APS-C Canon 7D.

[AceVentura1986]

3 hours ago, marchyman said:

Edit to the above: I use the 50 with an APS-C Canon 7D.

This is really good to know. 50mm on a 1.6 crop equates to 80mm FF. If my 50mm won’t work, I can then use my 85mm and have a set up close to yours, at least I think it’ll work. I’m going to order the Kenko tubes, a film holder and a light pad. Mounting this vertically on my tripod should work. 
 

thanks 

[AceVentura1986]

8 hours ago, zeitz said:

I have tested several lenses for close up work.  The best one I found is a Leitz Focotar-2 50mm f4.5.  Being an enlarger lens it is sharp close up, has a flat field and no discernible vignetting.  I also think you would do better with a bellows with a film holder attachment than with extension tubes.  The Leitz lens would probably need an adapter depending on the bellows selected.  Focotar-2 lenses still command a price in the $300 range.

Is there any way to mount this on a Canon EF mount? 

[gbealnz]

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9 minutes ago, AceVentura1986 said:

Is there any way to mount this on a Canon EF mount? 

I don't have the Focotar, but use the Apo series from Rodenstock. They are (usually) M39, so any M39 (LTM) to EOS adapter should suffice. Or the thin ring M39-M42 adapter, then the M42 - EOS adapter.

Gary

[a.noctilux]

28 minutes ago, AceVentura1986 said:

Is there any way to mount this on a Canon EF mount? 

With adapter(s) you can mount most of lenses from other mounts on your Canon 6D.

I mount my Focotar 50mm which is screw 39mm on 42 to 39 ring ( plus required rings or bellows in 42mm) then 42mm to EF adapter that I have.

...

As old timer M user, I happend to own since long BEOON and Focotar 50mm, I tried with M9 Monochrom, the results are quite good.

Now with LV of M246, it's more comfortable for me to "scan" in b&w negatives.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/300714-post-an-image-relating-to-the-previous-one/?do=findComment&comment=3819383

 

 

Dust can be problems while real scanner (I use Nikon Coolscan V ED ) not better in b&w because their ICE "removing dust/scratch function" can't be used.

 

You have many ways to "scan" with digital cameras.

Edited December 31, 2019 by a.noctilux

[zeitz]

1 hour ago, AceVentura1986 said:

Is there any way to mount this on a Canon EF mount? 

The Focotar-2 is a Leica Thread Mount (LTM), which is 39mm x 26 threads per inch.  If you use a bellows, obviously you need an EF mount at the camera end.  Depending what bellows you buy, you can get either LTM or EF for the lens.  If you buy a bellows with an EF lens mount, such as a Canon made bellows, you will need an LTM to EF adapter.  Novoflex has a great variety of bellows and adapters.  Even if you don't want a Novoflex bellows, which are admittedly expensive, check out their website to see what options exist.

[AceVentura1986]

12 hours ago, zeitz said:

The Focotar-2 is a Leica Thread Mount (LTM), which is 39mm x 26 threads per inch.  If you use a bellows, obviously you need an EF mount at the camera end.  Depending what bellows you buy, you can get either LTM or EF for the lens.  If you buy a bellows with an EF lens mount, such as a Canon made bellows, you will need an LTM to EF adapter.  Novoflex has a great variety of bellows and adapters.  Even if you don't want a Novoflex bellows, which are admittedly expensive, check out their website to see what options exist.

Thank you. 

[verwackelt]

Am 30.12.2019 um 19:37 schrieb marchyman:

because I never made a holder to keep the film flat enough to use with the DSLR.

i use a cheap filmcarrier (filmholder) with anti-newton glass from an old enlarger.
Very cheap at ebay. It is good for black masking the negativ at its borders too...
If using a bellow on the "scanner"camera you can use good enlarger-lenses in revers mounting very well...

Edited January 9, 2020 by verwackelt

[pklein]

Don’t dismiss the idea of a macro lens.  A good manual focus macro lens may be good enough for your needs.  I use an old, cheap Olympus 50/3.5 macro lens at f/8 to “scan” old family slides on an Olympus EM-5 micro 4/3 camera. Plus a Nikon ES-1 slide copy attachment, a couple of filter thread adapters, and a Cirrus adapter to mount the lens on the camera. The quality is fine for screen-size images or 5x7 prints..  A full-frame camera will be even better. The exact setup will vary depending on the equipment you already own. 

One caveat, though.  If you want maximum quality and use black-and-white film, or fine grained slide film,  even the resolution of a full frame DSLR may not be enough to avoid a phenomenon known as grain aliasing. This makes the grain on your digital copy bigger than the original grain on the slide or negative.   In that case, only a real film scanner will do. 

—Peter

[verwackelt]

These grainy results i had more with negatives than slides. but only on my drum scanners not with Camera.
Try a macro is of course better solution...

[ph.]

I have found the Novoflex bellows rack and adjustment cogs  somewhat susceptible to wear: I have one which has become unusable. Leitz , and Alpa with its dovetail type rails seem far better made. But I routinely use an almost as solid Olympus bellows which has a separate slide copying device- bellows latching on to the lens so as to avoid stray light.Unfortunately, I got rid of my 85mm1:1 OM lens which is specially made for this, in exchange for an APO 180 for my R some time ago, so I use a reversed Rodenstock Apo-Rodagon at f 5,6. 

p.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

I would go for a macro lens, the Canon 50mm macro lens for your camera is an excellent lens, not sure if it focuses to 1:1, but if you are using it on a cropped sensor that is not a problem.

You can't go wrong with a Focotar II, I used one in my darkroom for years, great lens but you will need some sort of bellows unit to use it. I have a slide duplicator which is essentially a bellows over a light source, the lens on it is an 80 Schneider Componon f4, a lens made for slide duplication, optimized for 1:1. My results have been great with this set up. I have been using my CL for a camera, my film camera is a M3.

 

[nefarious]

any suggestions on a reasonably inexpensive light box and copy stand that one can attach a DSLR directly to?  I have a Tamron 70-300 Macro available that I assume I can make use of

[a.noctilux]

Nefarious,

sorry to warn you that using zoom lens for scanning negative at 1:1 is not good idea.

Most zoom lenses have plenty of glass elements for aberration corrections at distance.

In 1:1 copying, with zoom you would NOT have required flat field, but with some geometric distortions, and some softness.

 

Second sorry, inexpensive (less than 300€ of gear) in this "scanning world" means less satisfaction with results.

Even with good gear (more expensive "good macro/enlarger lens", stand, bellows, etc. ), you must learn how to make the best out of the gear.

[verwackelt]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb nefarious:

any suggestions on a reasonably inexpensive light box and copy stand that one can attach a DSLR directly to?  I have a Tamron 70-300 Macro available that I assume I can make use of

Then buy better a used enlarger lens like an Apo-Rodagon and mount it reverse in front of a bellow. Way better than a Zoom.
You can use almost every Lightbox from ebay. If you have a tablet, you can use it as a lightbox too.
An iPad on the table switched to brightest screen and then with a bit distance a filmcarrier from an old enlarger...

Edited February 19, 2020 by verwackelt

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[250swb]

5 hours ago, nefarious said:

any suggestions on a reasonably inexpensive light box and copy stand that one can attach a DSLR directly to?  I have a Tamron 70-300 Macro available that I assume I can make use of

What you need are a Kaiser 2453 Slimlite Plano light pad (22x16cm), and then the generic 'CS 320 Copy stand' both available from an eBay retailer in the UK, should cost about £130 to get both. I think you need a macro lens (but do try your Tamron first), so if a full frame camera I suggest a 60mm macro. I use the Nikon 60mm D on a Z7. The whole kit should go together easily (I found the thread on my copy stand needed an extra washer or it bottomed out in the camera, alternatively replace the top with a tripod head). An app on your iPhone to level the camera is ideal. Then you need a negative holder, often you can find something from an old scanner on eBay. Additionally you will need some software because neither Photoshop or Lightroom can 'invert' a colour negative or B&W image correctly. I refuse to use Lightroom and so Negative Lab Pro is out, so I use ColorPerfect in Photoshop, but enduring Lightroom for back-to-back tests I found the real world output is very similar. Ideally you need a high mp camera. But the advantage of what you've got there is the ability to scan larger film formats beyond 35mm should you stray.....

Edited February 19, 2020 by 250swb

[nefarious]

On 2/19/2020 at 6:26 PM, a.noctilux said:

Nefarious,

sorry to warn you that using zoom lens for scanning negative at 1:1 is not good idea.

Most zoom lenses have plenty of glass elements for aberration corrections at distance.

In 1:1 copying, with zoom you would NOT have required flat field, but with some geometric distortions, and some softness.

 

Second sorry, inexpensive (less than 300€ of gear) in this "scanning world" means less satisfaction with results.

Even with good gear (more expensive "good macro/enlarger lens", stand, bellows, etc. ), you must learn how to make the best out of the gear.

 

On 2/19/2020 at 7:27 PM, verwackelt said:

Then buy better a used enlarger lens like an Apo-Rodagon and mount it reverse in front of a bellow. Way better than a Zoom.
You can use almost every Lightbox from ebay. If you have a tablet, you can use it as a lightbox too.
An iPad on the table switched to brightest screen and then with a bit distance a filmcarrier from an old enlarger...

 

On 2/19/2020 at 9:39 PM, 250swb said:

What you need are a Kaiser 2453 Slimlite Plano light pad (22x16cm), and then the generic 'CS 320 Copy stand' both available from an eBay retailer in the UK, should cost about £130 to get both. I think you need a macro lens (but do try your Tamron first), so if a full frame camera I suggest a 60mm macro. I use the Nikon 60mm D on a Z7. The whole kit should go together easily (I found the thread on my copy stand needed an extra washer or it bottomed out in the camera, alternatively replace the top with a tripod head). An app on your iPhone to level the camera is ideal. Then you need a negative holder, often you can find something from an old scanner on eBay. Additionally you will need some software because neither Photoshop or Lightroom can 'invert' a colour negative or B&W image correctly. I refuse to use Lightroom and so Negative Lab Pro is out, so I use ColorPerfect in Photoshop, but enduring Lightroom for back-to-back tests I found the real world output is very similar. Ideally you need a high mp camera. But the advantage of what you've got there is the ability to scan larger film formats beyond 35mm should you stray.....

Thanks all for all the feedback - I appreciate it. I may just carry on paying for development and scanning until I can afford the time to do otherwise - that will be when the kids are older and I've retired!!