SL2 Excessive Noise and other image issues?

[LikameLeica]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have been using the SL for ~4 years and have really loved the camera.  I decided to upgrade and I just received my new SL2 this past week and I am not entirely happy with image performance.  I still have more testing be done over the next few days, but wanted to post and see if others have similar issues and/or recommendations.  I have a feeling that this has more to do with Adobe Lightroom processing of SL2 images and not actual issue with image quality.

Equipment & Software:

• SL2 with 24-90 SL Lens, 35 1.4 Summilux and 50 1.4 Summilux Lenses.
• Brand New MacBook Pro 16" with upgraded AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB graphics card, and 32GB RAM
• Adobe Lightroom Classic 9.1 and Camera Raw 12.1

Issues:  

1.  Excessive Image Noise on images at 1600, 3200, and 6400 ISO in comparison to what I have seen with the SL.

2.  Import into Lightroom with Embedded Profile produces an excessively magenta toned image.  I have to convert the image to Adobe Portrait or Adobe Color to get White Balance looking accurate.

3.  Images seem to be soft and high-contrast in comparison to my experience with SL images.

4.  Images sometimes will not load properly (high res) in Lightroom and I have to click to next image and then back to get it to load (realize this is not a camera issue)

Any thoughts or advise?

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, LikameLeica said:

I have been using the SL for ~4 years and have really loved the camera.  I decided to upgrade and I just received my new SL2 this past week and I am not entirely happy with image performance.  I still have more testing be done over the next few days, but wanted to post and see if others have similar issues and/or recommendations.  I have a feeling that this has more to do with Adobe Lightroom processing of SL2 images and not actual issue with image quality.

Equipment & Software:

• SL2 with 24-90 SL Lens, 35 1.4 Summilux and 50 1.4 Summilux Lenses.
• Brand New MacBook Pro 16" with upgraded AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB graphics card, and 32GB RAM
• Adobe Lightroom Classic 9.1 and Camera Raw 12.1

Issues:  

1.  Excessive Image Noise on images at 1600, 3200, and 6400 ISO in comparison to what I have seen with the SL.

2.  Import into Lightroom with Embedded Profile produces an excessively magenta toned image.  I have to convert the image to Adobe Portrait or Adobe Color to get White Balance looking accurate.

3.  Images seem to be soft and high-contrast in comparison to my experience with SL images.

4.  Images sometimes will not load properly (high res) in Lightroom and I have to click to next image and then back to get it to load (realize this is not a camera issue)

Any thoughts or advise?

To my best knowledgeL

- It is normal that higher resolution sensors have more noise. If you scale the image down, e.g., to print or to post online, the difference in noise should not be that high.

- Which Lightroom version do you have? LR supports SL2 fully only since versions published this December.

 

[Petrus61]

I have been using Sl since they came out - really liked - bought the Sl2 on release and I am having the same colour issues  - magenta & reds in dng are way off - almost impossible to get colour balance correct - lightroom doesn’t work for me  - tried capture one - same problem with colours in dng files. I am currently in Switzerland in holiday so very infuriating - shame as will probably dispose of the SL2 as it is not possible to try and  modify every image to correct colour- at the moment avoiding taking images with any red unless i shoot in jpeg which is not my thing....

i am supposed to be shooting fashion shows in London in Jnauary and these images won’t be colour correct so will probably cancel...

[frame-it]

21 minutes ago, SrMi said:

 

- It is normal that higher resolution sensors have more noise.

 

Are You Serious ?

[SrMi]

15 minutes ago, frame-it said:

Are You Serious ?

Is that a serious question :-)?

Simplified, higher resolution sensors have smaller pixels which leads to more noise if seen at 100%. The situation changes if you see the images at the same resolution (scaled down, not scaled up).

IMO, comparing images at same resolution makes most sense. It is not clear if the OP is comparing the images at per-pixel basis (100% view) instead.

Edited December 26, 2019 by SrMi

[LikameLeica]

Quote

It is normal that higher resolution sensors have more noise. If you scale the image down, e.g., to print or to post online, the difference in noise should not be that high.

Thanks for the reply.  But why would I upgrade to a higher resolution camera (going from 24MP to 47MP) to then "scale the image down".  My whole point is to print BIG images and having higher resolution should allow for more detail within large prints when comparing 24MP SL to 47MP SL2.

[LikameLeica]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

To my best knowledgeL

- It is normal that higher resolution sensors have more noise. If you scale the image down, e.g., to print or to post online, the difference in noise should not be that high.

- Which Lightroom version do you have? LR supports SL2 fully only since versions published this December.

 

I am using LR Classic latest version.  

• Adobe Lightroom Classic 9.1 and Camera Raw 12.1

[thighslapper]

1. Noise on a 5k Apple screen does not equate to similar noise in a print ...... even a very large one. 

2. There probably is more, or similar noise at equivalent ISO's compared to the SL ..... viewed at 100%, but comparing both at full screen will show the the benefit of 47mpx.

3. An updated version of LR should have a correct Adobe profile that should correct any colour issues..... set to use Abobe Colour by default. The Leica embedded profile is fine for OOC JPG's but has never been right for RAW processing in my experience .... and that goes back to M9 days. 

4. All this assumes you have a correctly calibrated screen ..... although Apple screens are usually accurate it is not guaranteed without your own checking and profiling.

5. If you want better high ISO performance you will .... at least with current technology ..... have to 'downgrade' to a good current generation 24mpx sensor like the Lumix S1 or move to Sony. 

From my experience colours in the current version of LR are just the same as the 'usual' Leica palette and identical to those on the Lumix S1R. I'm very happy with higher ISO noise at 800 and 1600 ..... which is as high as I ever go .... and with IBIS you can avoid higher ISO's in most circumstances anyway. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by thighslapper

[SrMi]

13 minutes ago, LikameLeica said:

Thanks for the reply.  But why would I upgrade to a higher resolution camera (going from 24MP to 47MP) to then "scale the image down".  My whole point is to print BIG images and having higher resolution should allow for more detail within large prints when comparing 24MP SL to 47MP SL2.

If you are comparing the outputs of two cameras with different resolutions, then you should do it at the same image size (scaled up or down) as you plan to print at a certain size. The goal is a print of certain size, right? If you want to compare a correspondingly larger print with a smaller print, that is fine too, but you have to reduce your expectations.

 

[Chaemono]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Petrus61:

I have been using Sl since they came out - really liked - bought the Sl2 on release and I am having the same colour issues  - magenta & reds in dng are way off - almost impossible to get colour balance correct - lightroom doesn’t work for me  - tried capture one - same problem with colours in dng files. I am currently in Switzerland in holiday so very infuriating - shame as will probably dispose of the SL2 as it is not possible to try and  modify every image to correct colour- at the moment avoiding taking images with any red unless i shoot in jpeg which is not my thing....

i am supposed to be shooting fashion shows in London in Jnauary and these images won’t be colour correct so will probably cancel...

There‘s a major exhibition in Germany currently dedicated to Pierre Cardin, the internationally renowned fashion designer.  It features 80 styles of all kinds of colors, blue, magenta, red, orange, yellow, brown, and more, and offers an insight into Cardin’s creative world.  I will post 18 pictures later that I took with the Super-VE 16-35 and the 75 Summicron-SL at the exhibition.  The SL2 has excellent color accuracy and AWB in artificial light, the best of any FF camera, IMO.
 

I will likely include links to download all 18 DNGs, too. 😁

[jaapv]

A few things: Both camera exposure bias and Lightroom profile need getting familiar with on any new camera. How does the histogram look on your camera with those noisy shots? Have you created a dedicated profile for LR? Is your Macbook screen calibrated?

[tobey bilek]

8 hours ago, Petrus61 said:

I have been using Sl since they came out - really liked - bought the Sl2 on release and I am having the same colour issues  - magenta & reds in dng are way off - almost impossible to get colour balance correct - lightroom doesn’t work for me  - tried capture one - same problem with colours in dng files. I am currently in Switzerland in holiday so very infuriating - shame as will probably dispose of the SL2 as it is not possible to try and  modify every image to correct colour- at the moment avoiding taking images with any red unless i shoot in jpeg which is not my thing....

i am supposed to be shooting fashion shows in London in Jnauary and these images won’t be colour correct so will probably cancel...

Capture One has an auto levels function. Click the RGB icon in levels panel, then auto,  and it will level INDIVIDUAL RGB channels automatically which gives perfect WB.

Can be done manually ( same procedure)  in Photoshop about 90 sec per image.  Capture one auto takes 2 sec, one click.  Don`t know about LR as I never use it

 

[LikameLeica]

6 hours ago, Chaemono said:

There‘s a major exhibition in Germany currently dedicated to Pierre Cardin, the internationally renowned fashion designer.  It features 80 styles of all kinds of colors, blue, magenta, red, orange, yellow, brown, and more, and offers an insight into Cardin’s creative world.  I will post 18 pictures later that I took with the Super-VE 16-35 and the 75 Summicron-SL at the exhibition.  The SL2 has excellent color accuracy and AWB in artificial light, the best of any FF camera, IMO.
 

I will likely include links to download all 18 DNGs, too. 😁

What photo editing software are you using to process he images?  I agree that once I get the images correctly adjusted with white balance the colors look amazing.  Its just that the embedded profile in Lightroom is not producing accurate colors.

[SrMi]

11 minutes ago, LikameLeica said:

What photo editing software are you using to process he images?  I agree that once I get the images correctly adjusted with white balance the colors look amazing.  Its just that the embedded profile in Lightroom is not producing accurate colors.

The Adobe Color Profile is the default when importing SL2 files in the latest LR. Are you applying a preset while importing? How do you get an Embedded color profile applied?

I have not seen a magenta cast on any of my SL2 files. I have read of magenta cast when using out-of-date LR.

[Chaemono]

vor 47 Minuten schrieb LikameLeica:

What photo editing software are you using to process he images?  I agree that once I get the images correctly adjusted with white balance the colors look amazing.  Its just that the embedded profile in Lightroom is not producing accurate colors.

Like SrMi, I use LR with Adobe Color as a profile.  Then I go to the Camera Calibration tab/panel in order to micro-adjust and tune Camera Raw's color interpretation for this profile.

In the case of these here https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-7qQZzW/

like this

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Chaemono]

And here are links to download a few of the compressed DNG files.  I think the SL2 has the best AWB by the camera and the most accurate colors provided one chooses the right RAW converter with the right profile and tweaks its color interpretation accordingly. 😁

Link to the compressed DNG download here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g26941535-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=tJ2s_dq-NMqQ2rBQlI8WumdbWk2f-qSvKnGTOuED2_c=

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Link to the compressed DNG download here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g57778385-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=JAeSl0Ct01o3uORfb2qKtfMAbO94dWG-9fOp-UBcsa0=

 

Link to the compressed DNG download here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g336042068-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=W7rXTPfAbDoTgvj4HMfsxCalGH4hC_A0VE3eSQ5sKEg=

 

Link to the compressed DNG download here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g345710906-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=95E7SsgVj3nr-_Bq4Z6-T3IbfYZ-JMY9tDQzb5kCWQ4=

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb SrMi:

How do you get an Embedded color profile applied?

It’s impossible to get the Embedded color profile applied when opening the SL2 files in LR unless one removes the opcodes from the DNGs.  The OP either does that or he’s just making it up.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, LikameLeica said:

  I agree that once I get the images correctly adjusted with white balance the colors look amazing.  

That’s the point with any new camera.  Once desired outcome is determined, use appropriate defaults, presets and/or custom profiles to achieve efficient and consistent results... at least to get initially close.

 

1 hour ago, LikameLeica said:

Its just that the embedded profile in Lightroom is not producing accurate colors.

Patient:  Doc, it hurts when I do this.  

Doc: So don’t do that.

Jeff

[Chaemono]

Patient: Doc, my brother thinks he’s a chicken.

Doc: So turn him in.

Patient: I can’t, I need the eggs.

😂

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[01af]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

It is normal that higher-resolution sensors have more noise.

That's a common misconception.