MMI and SL2

[wilfredo]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Anyone have any thoughts on a combination of cameras featuring the MM1 and the Leica SL2?  I currently shoot with a Monochrom (original version) and for color work I have a Sony A7RII.  I'm not a pro and mostly shoot for the delight of it (www.ReligionIsGarbage.com).  My favorite photographs are those produced with the Monochrom. I've been surfing the internet checking out the reviews on the SL2, and compared to the Sony, I suspect I would enjoy it more, as it seems more intuitive and beautifully designed, but in terms of image quality, at the end of the day, I don't think it would be worth the increased investment. I haven't seen anything posted online that's been very convincing and technical presentations on the merits of the IQ do nothing for me, since for me the proof is in the pudding.  My greatest concern is that it still won't deliver the sense of awe I get from my MM1 files, which to me remain comparable to analogue B&W images.  The depth of rich tonality still seems to be missing when converting to B&W. Any thoughts?

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Likaleica]

Wilfredo, I think the combination of MM1 and SL or SL2 is ideal.  I have the MM1 and SL and I tested the SL2.  The UI of the SL2 is better and  more intuitive than the SL, and there are a lot of improvements like IBIS on the SL2 that make it the ideal camera (to me).  I have only tried the Sony cameras in stores and I just don't like the UI and ergonomics.  

[wilfredo]

6 minutes ago, Likaleica said:

Wilfredo, I think the combination of MM1 and SL or SL2 is ideal.  I have the MM1 and SL and I tested the SL2.  The UI of the SL2 is better and  more intuitive than the SL, and there are a lot of improvements like IBIS on the SL2 that make it the ideal camera (to me).  I have only tried the Sony cameras in stores and I just don't like the UI and ergonomics.  

Truth be told, I've never fully embraced the SONY, it's not a camera that resonates with me.  I love that I can use my M lenses on it, but still, I find it's overloaded with technology that is not always user friendly. Are you satisfied with your IQ using the SL? 

[Ken Abrahams]

I have been using the MM and SL combination since the release of the first SL. I think it is a great combination for both colour and mono work. The colour files of the SL still impress me along with the ease of using M lenses. I am not changing up tp the SL2 however I am sure that camera will be a similar if not better stable mate for the MM. I will be looking at the M10 Mono reportedly coming in 2020. 

[Likaleica]

7 hours ago, wilfredo said:

Are you satisfied with your IQ using the SL? 

Absolutely.  

[MarkP]

I have the Monochrom v1 (with sensor upgrade), M10 and SL (SL2 pending).  I cannot bring myself to part with the Monochrom. 

Despite the obvious refinement from M9 iterations to M240 and now M10, the Monochrom v1 still holds up well.  Although M10 and SL B&W conversions are outstanding, I find the Monochrom imaging quite distinctive when compared with the others.  The Monochrom v1 has a lovely 'filmic' tone and grain structure unlike any other digital camera I've used.

There is always something about the files that seem to have a 'resolution' that exceeds the 24MP sensor colour cameras.  It punches well above its weight with respect to IQ despite its 18 vs 24MB. Every type of Leica lens, whether new or old renders beautifully on the Monochrom.

I would have thought it still would not be that far behind the SL2 (as I's always considered it's 18MP to deliver double that of 18MP Bayer sensors) but I'll see when I have the opportunity to compare them.

The M-L adapter will of course let you use your M lenses on the SL2 to extend system compatibility.

Edited November 30, 2019 by MarkP

[Jeff S]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I own the MM1 (and M10).  Today I ordered an SL2, after a demo and then making prints.  The only way to judge is to try for yourself...demo, borrow or rent and incorporate into your own workflow.  Great IQ (print quality) is possible using a range of products these days, and depends on an entire workflow from shooting to editing,  to printing, to final display and lighting. As always, even in darkroom days, the best tools are between the ears.  

But beyond IQ, systems differ greatly in other ways... lens choices, ergonomics and handling, viewing and focusing systems, menus and control interfaces, reliability and support, presence or absence of specific features that may or may not be a priority (weather sealing, IBIS or OIS, sensor size,  etc, etc).

These are tools for the job, but work best when the user bonds with the experience.  Nobody can judge but you, based on your unique set of goals, needs, tastes and preferences.  I’ve been contemplating my own such needs for the past two years, considering digital complements to my M system, but serving different objectives.  Today I made my own decision.

Jeff

[Likaleica]

Good decision, Jeff.  In my opinion.

[otto.f]

14 hours ago, wilfredo said:

Anyone have any thoughts on a combination of cameras featuring the MM1 and the Leica SL2?  I currently shoot with a Monochrom (original version) and for color work I have a Sony A7RII.  I'm not a pro and mostly shoot for the delight of it (www.ReligionIsGarbage.com).  My favorite photographs are those produced with the Monochrom. I've been surfing the internet checking out the reviews on the SL2, and compared to the Sony, I suspect I would enjoy it more, as it seems more intuitive and beautifully designed, but in terms of image quality, at the end of the day, I don't think it would be worth the increased investment. I haven't seen anything posted online that's been very convincing and technical presentations on the merits of the IQ do nothing for me, since for me the proof is in the pudding.  My greatest concern is that it still won't deliver the sense of awe I get from my MM1 files, which to me remain comparable to analogue B&W images.  The depth of rich tonality still seems to be missing when converting to B&W. Any thoughts?

I own the MM1 too, would never part with it. I totally agree with your doubts, plus the SL2 is heavy stuff compared to your Sony. My impression is that you’re a bit more inclined to B&W than to color, so why the hustle of changing with these doubts.

[wilfredo]

All these thoughts are very helpful.  I resonate with the feelings expressed connected to the MMI, and I will never part with mine, it still delivers my most loved photographs with a subtle quality in tones no amount of post processing seems to achieve when I work with files produced with CMOS sensors. There is something in the DNA of the MMI that cannot be matched, and I think a certain sensibility is required to see this.  I am aware that this can be endlessly debated and challenged but this has been my experience with it. I mostly do B&W photography and I convert most of my Sony shots to B&W, and I’m not disappointed when I do, most of the time.  The SL2 seems very simple and cleverly designed which makes it very attractive, and I suspect most of us like the idea of remaining in the Leica family.  I will look into attending a SL2 demo, perhaps these are offered at the Leica store here in NYC?  I can also look into renting, before I make the leap of faith.  Thank you all for your thoughts. 🙏🏽

Edited November 30, 2019 by wilfredo

[Jeff S]

As noted, no reason to sell the MM1 (unless financial... but then why bother?).  I intend to keep the MM1, M10 and SL2.  Different tools for different objectives.  Whatever makes you happy.

Jeff

[Likaleica]

Trifecta!

[T25UFO]

Interesting thread . . . I have M10-D, Q2 and recently acquired MM1 (Leica refurbished).  I also had the original MM1 (sold regretted) and SL (sold no regrets).

Have thought about SL2 but have come to the conclusion that Leica glass is more valuable than the latest camera body.  Glass will last longer as well, so the £5,300 I save by not buying the SL2 will (almost) buy a 24mm f1.4 Summilux 😀.

[Jeff S]

17 minutes ago, T25UFO said:

Interesting thread . . . I have M10-D, Q2 and recently acquired MM1 (Leica refurbished).  I also had the original MM1 (sold regretted) and SL (sold no regrets).

 

You must mean M246 (based on M240 platform). The MM1 is shorthand for the first M Monochrom (based on the M9 platform), just called Monochrom at the time.

Jeff

Edited November 30, 2019 by Jeff S

[T25UFO]

9 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

You must mean M246 (based on M240 platform). The MM1 is shorthand for the first M Monochrom (based on the M9 platform), just called Monochrom at the time.

Jeff

No, it's an original Monochrom refurbished by Leica.  Jono Slack started a thread on this and also wrote about it on his website.  See photo below, arrived a couple of weeks ago, chrome with my choice of red leather covering and only 114 shutter actuations.  I guess it's the nearest you can get to a new MM1.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Jeff S]

9 minutes ago, T25UFO said:

No, it's an original Monochrom refurbished by Leica.  Jono Slack started a thread on this and also wrote about it on his website.  See photo below, arrived a couple of weeks ago, chrome with my choice of red leather covering and only 114 shutter actuations.  I guess it's the nearest you can get to a new MM1.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Ok, I think of them both as original MM1s, just dressed up as many owners do in their own, and with new sensor, which is one of many repairs possible.  But I get your distinction.  My MM1 came from Germany with new sensor and full servicing, with warranty, but still an ‘original’ Monochrom to me.

Jeff

Edited November 30, 2019 by Jeff S

[IkarusJohn]

On 12/1/2019 at 9:19 AM, T25UFO said:

No, it's an original Monochrom refurbished by Leica.  Jono Slack started a thread on this and also wrote about it on his website.  See photo below, arrived a couple of weeks ago, chrome with my choice of red leather covering and only 114 shutter actuations.  I guess it's the nearest you can get to a new MM1.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Nice!

I have an early Monochrom, one of the few originally made in silver chrome.  When I had the sensor replaced (second version), Leica covered it with tan ostrich print leather.  It makes a lovely distinction from the black M10-D!

[lpeeples]

I guess I am going the other way... I have the SL2/M10 and have been toying with the idea of replacing the 10 with a mono of some sorts (or just adding a mono). I've had the MM1 in the past and sold it and it still intrigues me. The SL2 takes shooting with the M lenses to another level (mostly urban landscape) and I can see adding the Mono would be a great addition.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Neko]

 Hi wilfredo,

 I had the M10 and the MM1. I decided to sell the M10 and buy a SL2. I´m very happy with this decision. Most of my documentary projects with people are shot in B&W so the M10 had little use for that purpose. For the rest of my projects ( macro, close-up, studio...) the SL2 is fantastic.

I tested it with M lenses ( 50APO, 90APO and 35 lux FLE ) and the results are very good. I also have tested it with the 100AME. The image quality from this combo is outstanding.

 Shooting M lenses with IBIS and magnification is a pleasure. 

 Nevertheless I always will keep my MM1. I just love the B&W files from this camera and its compactness . And for people and documentary projects I rather prefer rangefinders. The 50APO+MM1 is amazing in every sense (IQ, balance, compactness...)

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Neko

[wilfredo]

I can’t see parting with my MM1 which has a new sensor replaced by Leica at no charge.  If I were to go forward with the SL2, I would still keep my MM1.  I hope to make it to the Leica store soon so I can have a first hand experience of the SL2.  I’ll take my 50mm ASPH LUX with me.  Thank you for your impressions.