SL2 - first (less talked about) impressions

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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4 hours ago, thighslapper said:

Same NR settings (0)....... if viewed 2:1 on a 5k screen there is clearly a stop or so difference between the cameras at 800 and above and the gap possibly widens the higher you go. At 800/1600 noise is unobtrusive and less noticeable, but still visible at 1:1. NR to eliminate it does noticeably reduce fine detail contrast on screen, but I suspect at A2 or less print sizes you may be hard pushed to notice it. 

I used iso 100 for both cameras ...... never used 50 on the S1R and doubt I'll bother with it on the SL2. 

IBIS on my S1R has been set on 'body' and on all the time. With SL lenses you only have the choice of IBIS or OIS and IBIS is always better. With native Lumix lenses it defaults to IBIS+OIS with this menu setting anyway, so there is no point changing it. SL2 IBIS seems as effective as on the S1R. 

You should try ISO 50 on the S1R. It's lovely. Almost a stop of extra DR according to Photons to Photos (although, personally I feel it's a bit less than a full stop.). Not sure if there's any advantage on the SL2 though. I'm still in the testing phase.

Gordon

[lurker]

On 12/6/2019 at 5:48 AM, thighslapper said:

I've become rather paranoid after I started transferring my ever increasing photo catalogue to a large capacity NAS. I discovered a significant proportion of images were corrupted ..... all of which seems to have occurred over a 6 month period last year and is fairly random in distribution but appears to have affected images that I have accessed the most often ..... which basically are my best photos. There are bits missing and often a big red stripe down the middle. Quite how this can happen by just accessing the photos beats me, but was obviously a HDD issue and aggravated by Time Machine overwriting my back-ups with corrupted data. I finally managed to salvage a complete set of uncorrupted files by amalgamating multiple old copies on various drives going back to 1999 and images I'd downloaded onto my iPad during 2018. Now I've got copies and backups stored all over the place, including the cloud, solid state, HDD and several old computers scattered over various sites and countries. These days I make multiple copies, never delete originals and don't rely on entirely automated back up solutions. 

I solve this issue by storing all my images on a ZFS Pool, all files are checksummed so no bitrot is possible.

[jrp]

I am trying to find out what I did to get Lightroom (RAW 12.0) to stop recognising the lens correction profile for SL lenses and applying it automatically ("unable to locate a matching profile automatically"), even through the lens seems to be identified correctly in the view options overlay.  Perhaps I used the M adapter before and didn't switch the camera off when removing it, or something. V odd.

 

[LocalHero1953]

10 hours ago, thighslapper said:

Paul ...... I've run some careful comparisons today between the S1R and SL2 ..... I won't post any images as it isn't worth it at the resolutions available here and the differences are negligible. I used SL 16-35 and 24-90 lenses. Auto WB, f8, back button AF, Auto metering. 

Basically:

Level of Detail:   Identical

White Balance:  SL2 seems to produce slightly warmer images with AWB set (a difference of about 250-500k)

Colour Reproduction: I cannot see any difference at all once WB is corrected

Exposure:  On auto the S1R is about half a stop underexposed compared to the SL2 (with centre weighted metering)

Noise:   Unsurprisingly nil on both at 100 ISO and noise in shadow recovery is virtually non existent at +100 in LR. is  Once you get to 800 and above the S1R is about a stop noisier ...... accentuated by the fact that the SL2 files apply some automatic NR in LR on import whereas the S1R has zero. The differential in shadow recovery noise is less obvious at higher ISO's. I'm very noise averse, but even for very detailed landscape work I'd happily use the S1R at iso 800 and the SL2 at 1600 if I had to. 

So basically the camera image file output is identical apart from the higher ISO noise performance, presumably due to the SL2 sensor modifications capturing a bit more light. Anything else is down to various settings that once equalised in processing render any differences non existent....... or delusional beliefs manufactured by the user. 

Of course this is just my judgement and opinion ..... which may or may not be more critical than others. I'm of the often espoused belief the the 'Leica look' resides primarily in the lenses ..... and that it is the functional and ergonomic differences that set Leica cameras apart from other manufacturers. 

The SL2 is a better low light camera..... but otherwise the real choice is between features available and how you use the camera. IBIS seems equally effective and AF accurate and quick on both, with the SL2 edging out the S1R in lower light situations where it often won't lock on. I can't comment on AFc/Tracking as I never really use it. There are plenty of other things to compare which all boil down to individual preference and needs. That's why I'm more than happy to keep both cameras to use in slightly different situations, with the confidence that the resulting image quality is going to be stunning from both. 

 

Thanks, those are valuable comments, much appreciated! 

[bags27]

10 hours ago, thighslapper said:

 Once you get to 800 and above the S1R is about a stop noisier ......

 

IIRC, this is what Sean Reid found as well. That, along with the SL2's superior handling of M glass, were for me the most important distinctions.

[alywit]

9 hours ago, SrMi said:

back-button focusing

I’m a new to Leica and just got my SL2 so I hope this isn’t a duh question, but what is back-button focusing? 

[Chaemono]

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vor 10 Minuten schrieb alywit:

I’m a new to Leica and just got my SL2 so I hope this isn’t a duh question, but what is back-button focusing? 

“The camera usually focuses when the shutter button is pressed half way down, and then the photographer takes the picture when the button is pressed in fully.  Back button autfocus makes it so the shutter button doesn't control the focus activation at all, but instead assigns another button on the back of the camera (hence the name) to activate focusing on the camera.”

See here: https://improvephotography.com/4552/back-button-focusing/

[SrMi]

26 minutes ago, alywit said:

I’m a new to Leica and just got my SL2 so I hope this isn’t a duh question, but what is back-button focusing? 

 

What Chaemono wrote. On SL2 it is enabled by switching to MF (manual focus): focusing occurs by pressing the joystick instead of shutter.

Congrats on your SL2.

[LocalHero1953]

4 hours ago, alywit said:

I’m a new to Leica and just got my SL2 so I hope this isn’t a duh question, but what is back-button focusing? 

It's not a specifically Leica thing. It's when you no longer use AF activated by the shutter button (usually a half press), but press a separate button, often on the back of the camera, to set the focus by AF. The shutter button then just takes the shot at that fixed focus. It's a way of avoiding the way in which AF may slow down the response of the camera, or change in unwanted ways at the last moment. It also allows you to fine tune focus manually before taking the shot. Most advanced cameras have a variation of this.

Edited December 7, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[Chaemono]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

You explained your use case well, thanks. I use back-button focusing combined with Spot/Field focus metering. This means that I do not have shutter lag and my focus point is not always in focus. Pre-focus overrides back-button focusing, if I understand it correctly, and will always 'prepare' to have area under focus point in focus. Is that correct?

I just posted a picture in the image thread from today that shows the advantages of Pre Focus with the 50 Summicron-SL.  Together with the Maestro III processor, it makes the SL2 almost a better street camera than the M.  I say almost because one needs to have moved the cross-hair to roughly the right spot before raising the camera to one's eye.

BTW, the SL2 has no EVF issue.  I never noticed one, neither in the last few weeks nor today. 

[Tailwagger]

7 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

It's not a specifically Leica thing. It's when you no longer use AF activated by the shutter button (usually a half press), but press a separate button, often on the back of the camera, to set the focus by AF. The shutter button then just takes the shot at that fixed focus. It's a way of avoiding the way in which AF may slow down the response of the camera, or change in unwanted ways at the last moment. It also allows you to fine tune focus manually before taking the shot. Most advanced cameras have a variation of this.

And crucially, for me, it allows locking focus to a particular point without locking the exposure.  ie. the focus point can be decoupled from the exposure metering which can be useful at times.   

[alywit]

12 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

It's not a specifically Leica thing. It's when you no longer use AF activated by the shutter button (usually a half press), but press a separate button, often on the back of the camera, to set the focus by AF. The shutter button then just takes the shot at that fixed focus. It's a way of avoiding the way in which AF may slow down the response of the camera, or change in unwanted ways at the last moment. It also allows you to fine tune focus manually before taking the shot. Most advanced cameras have a variation of this.

I read the link above and it went a long way toward explaining the concept and uses of the back button. It sounds like the Canons and Nikons come preset with this feature. However with the Leica SL2 users reassign one of their own custom buttons for that and it has to be used in M mode?

[SrMi]

20 minutes ago, alywit said:

I read the link above and it went a long way toward explaining the concept and uses of the back button. It sounds like the Canons and Nikons come preset with this feature. However with the Leica SL2 users reassign one of their own custom buttons for that and it has to be used in M mode?

Not quite.

Neither Canon nor Nikon cameras come preset with usage of back button focus.

On Leica SL and SL2, in order to use BBF, the user must switch to MF mode (i.e., manual focus, M mode is different), and specify that joystick press activates focus (AFC or AFS).

[alywit]

12 minutes ago, SrMi said:

(i.e., manual focus, M mode is different)

Yup, sorry I meant manual focus. I like finding ways of being efficient and not missing the shot or wasting time. I have a ways to go with this camera still but I will experiment with BBF. Thanks for the explanations.

[Agent M10]

One less-talked-about change for the SL2 is the grip. I bought the 50mm Lux early on and basically shelved it because it was too heavy. It made the SL a two-hand camera. I took the lens out yesterday and the SL2's grip made all the difference. Yes, it is still weighty, but now it's more than manageable, even enjoyable. Best camera ever.

[SrMi]

On 12/6/2019 at 5:01 PM, bags27 said:

IIRC, this is what Sean Reid found as well. That, along with the SL2's superior handling of M glass, were for me the most important distinctions.

Sean Reid found that SL has about one stop advantage over SL2 and S1R, but that SL2 and S1r have the same noise characteristics.