Anybody been using ZEISS Biogon T* 2.8/21 ZM on Leica?

[eev776]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I want to get a wide lens for night photography, that works with M or L mount. I was facing limitation with Leica lenses, so I found this Zeiss lens ZEISS Biogon T* 2.8/21 ZM, that would work with my Leica CL using M adapter. How would ZEISS Biogon T* 2.8/21 ZM work vs. Summicron-TL 23 f/2 ASPH. on CL. 

Anybody been using this lens before any thoughts or recommendations? 

Edited November 25, 2019 by eev776

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[lct]

No but i would check if the lens does not protrude too far into the body.

[Guest]

Why for night photography an f:2.8 lens without AF, instead of the standard 2.0/23mm Asph. Summicron? 

[tommonego@gmail.com]

The only reason for not getting the 23 Summicron is if you want to pair the lens with an M camera. The 23 is a very good to excellent lens that works nicely with the CL, as LCT says you have to watch how far the lens extends into the body. The distance beyond the adapter is somewhere around 10-11 mm. I have a Canon 25 screw mount that just makes it. From pictures looks like the Zeiss 21 would extend beyond the mount just a little bit, but I wouldn't buy it without testing. Also the 23 is f2 which obviously makes a difference in low light.

[lct]

AF in low light really?

[eev776]

6 hours ago, tri said:

Why for night photography an f:2.8 lens without AF, instead of the standard 2.0/23mm Asph. Summicron? 

originally I wanted to get TL lens 11-23mm f:3.8, I tried it at Leica store, it was giving me bunch of noise by just shooting indoors, even though it’s a beautiful wide lens. I haven’t tried TL 23mm f:2 and curious about Zeiss Biogon T f2.8 21mm.

Edited November 25, 2019 by eev776

[eev776]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Ok I just find out that Zeiss lens has no pins to connect with body, so it's out of my list, because I need to read lens data. I started new topic in a CL section.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by eev776

[Stuart Richardson]

You can machine a 6 bit coating into it. I had a machinist friend do it for mine, but they might sell replacement mounts on ebay. Then you just code it so that a similar 21mm lens made by Leica comes up, like the 21mm Elmarit. I no longer have the 21mm, but I used to have it on film. It is a very good lens on film, but along with its sister lens, the 25mm Biogon, they are not so great on digital. It will be better on the M, but not great on the SL. For a CL, it might be ok, but not superb, most likely. The 25mm biogon is pretty compromised on the SL due to the very symmetrical nature of the design. The light rays coming out the exit pupil hit the cover class and sensor at a steep angle, and this leads to soft corners and edges. If you plan to shoot wide open at night, it is much better to use a lens that is native for the L mount or substantially retrofocal. Even when you are not using it full frame, I think you would get better results out of the 23mm summicron. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Stuart Richardson

[lct]

Just now, eev776 said:

Ok I just find out that Zeiss lens has no pins to connect with body, so it's out of my list, because I need to read lens data. 

You can do it by hand coding the lens or using an M profile listed by the CL. According to Zeiss, the better code for the ZM 21/2.8 would be that of the Elmarit-M 28/2.8 # 11809. See chart below. I have no experience with this lens though and i don't know if the chart below is valid for the CL given that Zeiss issued it for the M9 if memory serves.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[250swb]

On 11/25/2019 at 10:55 PM, Stuart Richardson said:

You can machine a 6 bit coating into it. I had a machinist friend do it for mine, but they might sell replacement mounts on ebay. Then you just code it so that a similar 21mm lens made by Leica comes up, like the 21mm Elmarit. I no longer have the 21mm, but I used to have it on film. It is a very good lens on film, but along with its sister lens, the 25mm Biogon, they are not so great on digital. It will be better on the M, but not great on the SL. 

The current (as of many years since) 21mm f/2.8 Biogon has a groove machined into the mounting flange intended for you to add dots of paint to code it, so no need for machining. It also works very well with the SL and also the M240 and M10, no issues at all, and very sharp.

[eev776]

2 minutes ago, 250swb said:

The current (as of many years since) 21mm f/2.8 Biogon has a groove machined into the mounting flange intended for you to add dots of paint to code it, so no need for machining. It also works very well with the SL and also the M240 and M10, no issues at all, and very sharp.

Interesting, so it does provides all digital data of the lens? 

[250swb]

17 minutes ago, eev776 said:

Interesting, so it does provides all digital data of the lens? 

If it is coded it provides all the same data that a Leica M lens would provide on an M or SL camera. There is no change in functionality from any coded Leica manual lens, it will give the focal length and the camera will make an educated guess for the f/stop as is usual with the manual lenses, using filters etc will confuse the camera even more than usual. Any lens corrections will also be applied. It will not however say in the EXIF file that the lens is a Zeiss lens, you have to code it as the equivalent Leica lens and this will display.

Edited November 27, 2019 by 250swb

[TomB_tx]

4 hours ago, 250swb said:

If it is coded it provides all the same data that a Leica M lens would provide on an M or SL camera. There is no change in functionality from any coded Leica manual lens, it will give the focal length and the camera will make an educated guess for the f/stop as is usual with the manual lenses, using filters etc will confuse the camera even more than usual. Any lens corrections will also be applied. It will not however say in the EXIF file that the lens is a Zeiss lens, you have to code it as the equivalent Leica lens and this will display.

True, but on a Leica lens the corrections are matched to the model. Applying a Leica code to a Zeiss lens may not correct vignetting and edge colors as well as the intended Leica lens, as the Zeiss characteristics may be different. (That said, my Zeiss lenses work well on Leica.)

[250swb]

10 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

True, but on a Leica lens the corrections are matched to the model. Applying a Leica code to a Zeiss lens may not correct vignetting and edge colors as well as the intended Leica lens, as the Zeiss characteristics may be different. (That said, my Zeiss lenses work well on Leica.)

It works pretty well. Just choose wisely the lens you code it as, nothing to panic about.

[Stuart Richardson]

Are you sure that it is good in the edges and corners Steve? I have a hard time believing it given how compromised the 25mm Biogon is. I know my copy is fine, as it is excellent on film, and decent on the M10, but on the SL and S1 it was pretty terrible...at least for an expensive Zeiss lens. 

[250swb]

8 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Are you sure that it is good in the edges and corners Steve? 

If I simply said 'yes, it is very good' I doubt you would believe me as you've already made your mind up based on conjecture alone. So please search all the other threads on this forum about the significant difference in performance there is between your 25mm Biogon and the lens you haven't actually used on an M or SL camera, the 21mm Biogon.

[Stuart Richardson]

No, just asking if you were interested in the corners as well! I do believe you. It was also based on having owned the lens on film and used it a lot on my M7. I bought them both together in Japan at the time of their release, and only sold it several years later after getting the 18mm. At the time, I found it very similar to the 25mm, so it was redundant. It was a superb lens with low distortion and high sharpness. As far as I understood, they are both biogon constructions, very symmetrical designs, the very ones that seem to give the greatest problems on digital. The testing I did on the 25mm was two weeks ago, so it is fresh in my mind, as I am considering the SL2 and what lenses to use on it. Thanks for the report.