SL2 and GPS tagging

[jrp]

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Part of the issue is that the app insists on pulling over a catalogue of thumbnails of whatever is on your card or cards. A waste of time and energy if you only want gps.  

[JulianHalliday]

28 minutes ago, Bernd B. said:

Julian, save time and nerves. I have a tracking-app running when taking photos I want with gps-data. Then the usual way: export the gps-file to lightroom, let lightroom do the work. This always works. The Leica-app still is not even able to keep a simple connection to the camera for remote-control. 

Ah! I confess, I hadn't tried this, and actually did not know that LR could use such input. I take it it correlates the time at which the photo was made with the location in the gps file; clever. Thank you! I'll give that a go.

[Bernd B.]

Using Google one will find lots of solutions. just have a look here https://www.jmpeltier.com/geotagging-lightroom/

[Tom B]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Bernd B.:

Julian, save time and nerves. I have a tracking-app running when taking photos I want with gps-data. Then the usual way: export the gps-file to lightroom, let lightroom do the work. This always works.

which LR version are you using? 

I'm using the online version - without the maps - and couldn't find the the way; only for the classic version 🙂 

Thanks a lot - this a point which makes me really angry of Leica. 

tom 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Tom B

[Bernd B.]

Yes, Leica is pretty bad there. And there is little hope Leica will spend a gps-system to a successor of the SL2. I know some folks working for Leica and they say they will stick to this app/smartphone-solution. 

Lightroom: sorry, I ONLY use the classic version, so I did not consider the online-version at all. 🙈😂

[hotshew]

13 hours ago, Bernd B. said:

I know some folks working for Leica and they say they will stick to this app/smartphone-solution. 

Please tell your friends they are fooling themselves (and some of their customers) if they think what is implemented in the SL2 is a solution, or that everything will somehow come together correctly for the next camera release. Having a feature that is untrustworthy is worse than none at all IMO. For a lot of photographers (esp. landscape), cameras and GPS tagging go together like salt and pepper and Leica's customers will invent their own solutions if the "in-camera" solution cannot be trusted. A solution that results in data loss, on the other hand, is unforgivable, which is exactly what Leica has given us in the SL2.

At $6,600 (US), I'll say again, it is disappointing Leica chose not to include an integrated GPS reciever similar to the SL (and Hasselblad X1Dii and Canon 1DXiii). The Leica brand is supposed to be about quality and simplicity, and yet they're letting the GPS feature tarnish their brand on both fronts (poor quality, added complexity). If Leica is concerned about the "ugly" GPS hump, I suggest their designers revisit the basics of design by having form follow function.

Edited June 20, 2021 by hotshew
typo

[SonomaBear]

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I carry my SL (601) as backup.  Shooting a few frames at each location, I can copy the GPS info and paste it into images from non-GPS cameras.  I'll never sell the SL...

BUT not having GPS at this price point is beyond belief!  What possible reason (other than engineering stubbornness or cheapness) could Leica have?

[jrp]

The phone solution might be acceptable if it worked, but it doesn’t. 

[hotshew]

2 hours ago, jrp said:

The phone solution might be acceptable if it worked, but it doesn’t. 

The phone as an equal and reliable alternative to integrated GPS function is a fool's errand.

1. Customers may choose not to carry their phones with them all the time, power them off to conserve battery, or keep them in a lower power state, especially when hiking, trekking, or camping in remote areas. I.e., then exact scenarios when a person is very likely to want a high-end camera with GPS function while managing their phone's power state for longevity -- assuming the phone even has coverage and is useful, and therefore on their person.
2. Phones evolve more rapidly than cameras, with technology stacks and privacy & security policies constantly changing; this creates a moving target for Leica to hit to achieve a reliable solution, which requires camera firmware and app to be continuously maintained and updated. Even if Leica updates fast and frequently enough to stay current with the various phone makes, models, and OS versions (very hard to do), a user could unwittingly update the phone app, not realizing it requires a camera firmware update while on a trip or remote job, which is a terrible time to update camera firmware.
3. A complex solution is rarely as reliable as a simple solution for the same problem to solve. Proxying GPS function via a smartphone is a complex solution to a relatively simple problem.

For consumer cameras competing on price at razor-thin margins, proxying GPS function via a smartphone is an acceptable tradeoff IMO, but not for a camera at the SL2's price point or from a company that prides itself on simplicity in design and quality (like Leica). Simplicity and quality are, after all, why many people buy into the Leica brand with their hearts and wallets.

Edited June 21, 2021 by hotshew
typo

[hotshew]

2 hours ago, SonomaBear said:

What possible reason (other than engineering stubbornness or cheapness) could Leica have?

My guess is they're "shipping the org" instead of making the best design choices for their customers. The Leica FOTOS team probably sees this as their problem to solve and pitches proxying GPS function via the smartphone as an equivalent solution to integrated GPS while reducing COGS. It sounds good on paper, and the Leica FOTOS team probably has some impressive looking data based on limited testing to address any reliability concerns, but that does not accurately reflect what customers are experiencing over time. The SL2 GPS feature simply cannot be trusted. FOTOS use-case scenarios like camera control and photo transfer are interactive, so if they fail you know it in real-time and can re-try. For GPS tagging, however, you don't learn about the problem until it's too late to do anything about it. This is a feature best integrated into the camera. I suspect many Leica engineers know this and the problem probably has company politics and accountants to blame.

[Bernd B.]

Folks, you are right:The solution Leica offers is a shame, not a solution. But: The workaround with smartphone, gps-tracker-app and Lightroom Classic works. 

[Photoworks]

for me the fotos app GPS function works, it even has a quicker response connection to lotion then a real GPS tracker that take long to connect and rest not have a connection for few min after turning on the camera.

I suggest you take a look at "Geotag Photos 2" app for iOS , it is a great alternative and very easy without using much battery at all.

after a day of shoot export GPX date and sync to photos with photo mechanics or Lightroom.

[Simone_DF]

I had a Panasonic S5 for a couple of weeks and GPS tagging via Panasonic mobile app worked flawlessly from day 1.

The problem is either in the Leica app or in the SL firmware.

[Bernd B.]

Yes, the problem is somewhere out there, between Leica‘ Firmware and the Leica-app. A Leica-engineer explained to me some details about a year ago. It all depends, too, on legal issues about connecting, copyrights, patents etc. To make it short: IF I want my photos tagged with gps-data, I use the solution via gps-app, smartphone and Lightroom CC. 

[Simone_DF]

56 minutes ago, Bernd B. said:

Yes, the problem is somewhere out there, between Leica‘ Firmware and the Leica-app. A Leica-engineer explained to me some details about a year ago. It all depends, too, on legal issues about connecting, copyrights, patents etc. To make it short: IF I want my photos tagged with gps-data, I use the solution via gps-app, smartphone and Lightroom CC. 

Looks like all other brands solved these "legal" issues many years ago, but a 6500€ camera apparently cannot. Even my old A7rII had zero connection issues and full GPS tagging via app.

[hotshew]

12 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

I had a Panasonic S5 for a couple of weeks and GPS tagging via Panasonic mobile app worked flawlessly from day 1.

You may have needed more time with the camera. The issue is reliability, not function. The SL2 system also works flawlessly, when it works. I have yet to come across a camera that proxies GPS location via smartphone to reliably geotag photos (and I also previously owned the S1R). It's a complex solution to a simple problem that lets you down when you need it most -- like a copy machine. Like others on this forum, I've resorted to using an external GPS logger for geotagging SL2 photos because the SL2 system results in data loss.

Edited June 21, 2021 by hotshew

[Bernd B.]

In a nutshell, dear hotshew. I guess we can close the topic now. 

[hotshew]

22 minutes ago, Bernd B. said:

In a nutshell, dear hotshew. I guess we can close the topic now. 

Sadly, yes. FWIW, I otherwise love my SL2 🙂

[hotshew]

Possibly old news since I haven't been paying attention to this topic as of late and have all but given up on hopes of a GPS solution for SL2, but I just updated to the latest SL2 v3 firmware and updated my Leica Fotos app, and I noticed an option in Fotos to "always tag" photos, which is listed as Beta. This is certainly a step in the right direction. Requiring the user to be (actively) using the app for GeoTag to work (as was previously the case IIRC) is indicative of not thinking through the use case very well, IMO. However, based on very limited usage and experimentation, it appears that the app process still needs to be running in order for the GPS tagging feature to work (as indicated by the satellite icon on the camera's display). It need not in the foreground (i.e, actively using), but if (1) you kill the app by swiping it up or (2) iOS memory management kicks in and closes the app to reclaim memory, then the feature no longer works. I don't have any mileage on the latest updates, but will see how goes. Hopefully, I suspect, if loading up the app at the start of a day of shooting, and occasionally through out day to keep it from getting closed in the background, then should be OK, assuming everything else is OK. Of course, Bluetooth needs to be enabled and Camera paired too -- so the Bluetooth icon showing on the Camera display is a precondition for the GPS satellite icon/indicator to show.

Edited September 26, 2021 by hotshew

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[LBJ2]

Since I figured out how to use Geotagging on my SL2 ver 2.0, in my case I had to reset the camera to get Geotagging working properly. All has been well, consistent and I find GPS through my iPhone connected to my SL2 is very consistent even inside my house. The same continues for me after the SL2 vers 3.0 update.

*I have noticed, I Must remember to disconnect the SL2 or the M10 from the Fotos app directly when I no longer want Geotagging or I will have connection issues the next time I try to set up and connect the SL2 or the M10-R/Visoflex else I have to power off the iPhone and the camera to get things connected again if I forget to disconnect the service from the Fotos app. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by LBJ2