Nikon Z6 and Super Angulon 3.4

[tomasis7]

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anyone has taken shot with Nikon? Im curious to see if it works in terms of mechanical and vignette. Id love to see some B&W

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[UliWer]

If the Super Angulon does fit mechanically to a Z6 body, there should not be any problems with black and white and/or vignetting. 

The lenses problems with digital sensors come from color shifts (magenta and/or cyan) which will only bother your with colored exposures. Vignetting may be a little bit stronger than on a modern equivalent, though this may add to the „character“ of the results you get from this lens.
 

 

[ianman]

4 hours ago, UliWer said:

If the Super Angulon does fit mechanically to a Z6 body

This is a good warning!! Be very careful. I wanted to put the Super Angulon on my X-Pro 2 and the lens is way too deep !

[Martin K]

I would not fit the Super Angulon 3,4 on a Nikon Z6 or Z7 if we are talking about the Schneider Kreuznach lens of the 60s and 70s. Whereas you will be able to mount it with the shutter open, once the shutter operates, it will hit the back of the lens and the shutter will be history. Quite a few of the adaptor suppliers warn against using it. Leica also does not list it amongst the M-lenses suitable for use on the Leica SL, which I guess would have a shutter thickness similar to that of the Nikon Z6/Z7. The lens has less than 8mm clearance between the lens mount and the sensor.

[lct]

31 minutes ago, Martin K said:

I would not fit the Super Angulon 3,4 on a Nikon Z6 or Z7 if we are talking about the Schneider Kreuznach lens of the 60s and 70s. Whereas you will be able to mount it with the shutter open, once the shutter operates, it will hit the back of the lens and the shutter will be history. Quite a few of the adaptor suppliers warn against using it. Leica also does not list it amongst the M-lenses suitable for use on the Leica SL, which I guess would have a shutter thickness similar to that of the Nikon Z6/Z7. The lens has less than 8mm clearance between the lens mount and the sensor.

Are you sure? I've no experience with Nikon Z6/Z7 but my M 21/3.4 (11103) works more than decently on my Kolari modded Sony A7s. Or perhaps the register distance of mirrorless Nikons is shorter? Feels odd but i may be wrong.

[UliWer]

Well, the 1:3.4/21 Super-Angulon was made for the M3, and did not spoil its shutter. The distance between the metal frame in front of  the shutter’s opening and the camera’s bayonet flange is 22 mm for the M3. This is the shortest distance I know from any M camera, since the frame of the M3 is the thickest,  the modern digital bodies have a frame much less elevated which give a millimeter or so more space. 

The lenses rear end has a diameter of 29.9mm, the frame in front of the shutter is a little bit more than 24mm on the short side. So if anything hits, it will hit this elevated metal frame, it cannot possibly  hit the shutter directly.

To find out if your camera has enough room for the Super Angulon‘s large rear end, you have to measure the distance between the flange of your M-adapter and anything which is right in front of the shutter. I presume some sort of frame will be normal for other designs as well. As long as you measure more than 22mm you are safe. 

There might be other technical problems with your camera and the lens: if there is any device for measuring etc. it might be blocked by the large rear end. We know this from the M with lightmeter: it doesn‘t work with the Super Angulon. Of course the camera‘s „throat“ between the bayonet and the shutter must be wide enough to take more than 30mm. 
 

 

 

[Martin K]

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Well, I have a Nikon Z7 and an M-lens adaptor. and the 21mm/3,4 Super Angulon. I seriously wanted to use it on the Nikon Z7. The distance from the last lens apex to the sensor/film plane is 8,3 mm for this lens according to Schneider Kreuznach data. And 8mm is much smaller than most of us think. Add to that the lens mount that protrudes a bit further than the lens apex and we have less than 8mm clearance between the lens and the sensor plane. The shutter assembly on the Z6/Z7 seems to be thinker than the shutter on an M3/M4/M6/M7 etc. i.e. thicker than the shutter curtain on my M6 anyway. I measured roughly 6mm on my Z7. I would certainly not go against the warning of the adaptor suppliers, nor against the Leica SL M-lens compatibility list. Replacing the shutter on the Z6/Z7 may be a very painful exercise. I for my part have shelved the idea - better safe than sorry. My other M-lenses of the same vintage work fine on the Nikon Z7.

[lct]

Another Sony superiority then?

[tomasis7]

😕For the record, I own the Super Angulon. I’m interested of Nikon z6 as the sensor is stripped. Sony body plus costs for sending to US for sensor stripping gets more expensive than the Nikon. Hmm.

currently the lens is on Epson Rd1. 

[250swb]

13 hours ago, Martin K said:

I measured roughly 6mm on my Z7. 

I think your measuring stick needs to go into the bin.

I don't have the lens in question but to clear things up a bit the distance from the face of the lens mount on the Z7 to the baffle screen in front of the shutter is 8mm, this however is irrelevant. With a Novoflex M/Z adapter fitted that distance increases to 19mm which is the same distance (as you would expect) as from the face of the lens mount to the shutter baffle on the M10. Given there are no other impediments inside the shutter box of the Z7 I can't see why a lens that fits the M series digital cameras can't also fit the Z7. The only proviso that Leica give to using this lens on a digital M is that metering can only be done in LV, and you have that all the time with the Z7. There is nothing flapping about in there between the lens and shutter so if it misses by half a millimeter or half a mile it makes no difference.

Edited November 14, 2019 by 250swb

[Martin K]

My Super Angulon lens barrel protrudes 20,1mm into the camera from the lens flange when focussed at infinity. The registration distance for the Leica M is 27,8mm. That leaves a clearance of 7,7mm between the sensor and the lens barrel. In between we have the cover glass of the sensor and the shutter. The cover glass of the Z7 is maybe 0,8mm or 1,0mm, and whether it rest flush on the sensor I don't know - I cannot measure that. The channel in which the shutter runs - that is the only thing I can measure - is about 6mm - as you cannot measure the shutter itself. That leaves a gap of 0,7mm at best, maybe less. As you mention it may miss by half a mm, but it may not. I certainly am not prepared to press the button to find out that the shutter of my Z7 is history.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Martin K

[lct]

15 minutes ago, Martin K said:

The cover glass of the Z7 is maybe 0,8mm or 1,0mm

1,1mm according to Kolari Vision but why deducing this value if i may ask? I would have thought that the cover glass forms an integral part of the sensor as far as register distance is concerned but i may be wrong.

[Martin K]

Thanks for the info of 1,1mm cover glass thickness - made up of a dust cover glass of 0,3mm and a UV/IR filter of 0,8 mm according to Kolari Viosion. When I look at some cutaway images of the Nikon Z cameras on the internet, I see the two cover glasses are not set against each other - there is a space between them, which makes the total physical thickness of the stack even larger. They are also not mounted flush to the sensor, further adding to their distance from the sensor, and further limiting the space between the protruding lens barrel and the shutter. The image plane is the sensor, i.e. the image is formed on the sensor, not on the cover glasses. So the registration distance of the Leica M lenses of 27,8mm has to be measured from the sensor to the lens flange. Anything in between these two limits the space the protruding lens has to clear. Therefore you have to take the cover glass thickness into account.  

[lct]

5 minutes ago, Martin K said:

The image plane is the sensor, i.e. the image is formed on the sensor, not on the cover glasses. So the registration distance of the Leica M lenses of 27,8mm has to be measured from the sensor to the lens flange.

I wonder whether it is measured this way actually. Any link about this? Just curious .

[250swb]

18 hours ago, Martin K said:

My Super Angulon lens barrel protrudes 20,1mm into the camera from the lens flange when focussed at infinity. The registration distance for the Leica M is 27,8mm. That leaves a clearance of 7,7mm between the sensor and the lens barrel. In between we have the cover glass of the sensor and the shutter. The cover glass of the Z7 is maybe 0,8mm or 1,0mm, and whether it rest flush on the sensor I don't know - I cannot measure that. The channel in which the shutter runs - that is the only thing I can measure - is about 6mm - as you cannot measure the shutter itself. That leaves a gap of 0,7mm at best, maybe less. As you mention it may miss by half a mm, but it may not. I certainly am not prepared to press the button to find out that the shutter of my Z7 is history.

Forget the cover glass or the sensor, you are measuring the wrong thing by trying to second guess unknown variables when you already have a common datum point to measure.

The distance from the face of the lens mount to the frame around the shutter (baffle) is 19mm on both the M10 and the Z7 with adapter mounted. The fact that it doesn't touch this frame is acknowledged by Leica in saying the Super Angulon can be used on the M10, and ipso facto also the Z7 because you are measuring the frame around the shutter as the common datum point between both cameras, not things that are going on behind the datum point. You are getting yourself into a pickle worrying about measuring registration distances or where the shutter is, or where the sensor is behind the cover glass because there is only one measurement needed, from the face of the adapter mounted on the Z7 to the baffle in front of the shutter, then use the knowledge that as the mount is made for M lenses the registration distance will be correct. Confirm this by measuring the equivalent distance on an M10 and find it is the same.

[mmradman]

I just had a peep inside my Z7, also fired the shutter at 1sec exposure.  The shutter curtain travels between the cover glass and the front baffle.  So, easiest way to check if a particular lens is OK or not is to measure usable clearance inside the camera between the face of the flange and front of the baffle - it is short.  

Next, fit lens to a lens adopter, focus at infinity and measure protrusion.  If protrusion is shorther than clearance it will be ok, if not lens is not suitable.

Will try to upload a sketch (pdf).

[mmradman]

2019-11-15 11-22 1.pdf

[mmradman]

JPG sketch added.

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Hallo,

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[Martin K]

mradman - yes, that would be the easier way and gives a bigger margin of safety because the shutter would run inside of the shutter channel, and not flush with the last baffle. The distance from the baffle to the lens flange on my Z7 is 8,5 mm as I measure it with a Vernier (as accurately as I can). The protrusion of my Super Angulon lens barrel with the adaptor fitted is 8,55mm as measured with same Vernier. Result: Interference. I will keep to my decision not to try it. Thanks for the pointers. Martin

[tomasis7]

so basically it is 0,5mm interference?