Image quality comparison between Hasselblad X1D II and Leica SL2

[Tailwagger]

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3 hours ago, thighslapper said:

'designed' is a rather elastic term ..... I maintain that I 'designed' our new flat, but the architect produced the detailed drawings/specifications and a number of tradesmen transformed that into reality. 

Similarly, many high end names in the jewellery world 'design' their creations .... but that rarely goes beyond a sketch and choice of materials. 

And often this is a very, very good thing... Trump Tower comes to mind. 😃

[tom0511]

OK, I am not a pixel-pixel peeper just a pixel peeper and I only can say what I see overall in my hobby amateurish images. There I didnt see any issue with sharpness of the xcd lenses I own (21/30/45/90).

What I saw is quite heavy vignetting which can be compensated by lens correction in LR, but I think it can reduce the DR of the image or increase noise in the corner at higher ISO. For me it is not a problem since I often like a little bit of vignetting.

Having said this I feel the S lenses to be a little more special rendering than the xcd, but its hard to put in words, maybe a little more information in the midtones and somewhat smoother transition to background and a little more 3d rendering, while the xcd images having a bit more pop and contrast.

[thighslapper]

5 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

but its hard to put in words

That just about sums up the futility of this whole thread, as far as I am concerned ......

[Chaemono]

Now suppose as you're walking around with your two favorite combos you come across an angel with a candle and you decide to photograph it with both cameras' base ISO by holding the X1D II with the XCD 80/1.9 really steady and by underexposing the SL2 even more.  I did manage to get a sharp shot at 1/30 sec. with the X1D II combo handheld and the lens is really more an f/1.5 FF equivalent.  I should, therefore, in this one have used f/1.6 on the SL2 because of the way each lens draws.  No RAW files this time because they required some work to make the angle look almost the same.  For those interested in the exact adjustments, the JPEGs can be run through an EXIF analyzer.  The overall X1D angel looks sharper because of the way the XCD 80/1.9 is more of an FF equivalent f/1.5 wide open and because of how it draws around the focus point.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-s7N2tR/

X1D II + XCD 80/1.9 not processed

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ISO 100 f/1.9 @1/30 sec.

SL2 + 50 Summilix-SL not processedISO 100 f/1.4 @1/60 sec.

[insideline]

3 hours ago, thighslapper said:

That just about sums up the futility of this whole thread, as far as I am concerned ......

Oh my, so very well said. For those of us who own both systems and shoot with both regularly, and have tried in vein to suggest the wonderful aspects of both systems I feel this thread has reached its point of proving anything meaningful. Both systems have their strengths, measurable even, and understanding how these pluses work in your world of photography will guide you to invest in one or the other, or both as some of us have, but to say one is "better" than the other is honestly pointless. 

[Chaemono]

And now some of the adjustments applied.

X1D II

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SL2

[Chaemono]

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb insideline:

Oh my, so very well said. For those of us who own both systems and shoot with both regularly, and have tried in vein to suggest the wonderful aspects of both systems I feel this thread has reached its point of proving anything meaningful. Both systems have their strengths, measurable even, and understanding how these pluses work in your world of photography will guide you to invest in one or the other, or both as some of us have, but to say one is "better" than the other is honestly pointless. 

We got a lot of BS statements in the previous ten pages of this thread, so we'll have to do some ten pages of RAW files with some of those XCD lenses wide open, I'm afraid.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Chaemono

[Chaemono]

And now with the adjustments and Sharpening +60, NR +20 in LR for each.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-s7N2tR/

X1D II + XCD 80/1.9 same as in #244 and processed as shown in #246 plus Sharpening +60, NR +20

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SL2 + 50 Summilux-SL same as in #244 and processed as shown in #246 plus Sharpening +60, NR +20

 

 

[bags27]

5 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

And now with the adjustments and Sharpening +60, NR +20 in LR for each.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-s7N2tR/

X1D II + XCD 80/1.9 same as in #244 and processed as shown in #246 plus Sharpening +60, NR +20

SL2 + 50 Summilux-SL same as in #244 and processed as shown in #246 plus Sharpening +60, NR +20

'Blatt is still sharper and overall ever so slightly more agreeable. But both are pretty terrific.

[Chaemono]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb bags27:

'Blatt is still sharper and overall ever so slightly more agreeable. But both are pretty terrific.

It’s the XCD 80/1.9 that makes the difference here.  That lens is off the charts sharp wide open.  Had they been taken at f/2.8 in FF equivalent one would see no difference in the angel.  What’s impressive, besides the sharpness of that freakin’ XCD lens, is how terrifically the SL2 sensor performs at base ISO.

[Jeff S]

16 hours ago, Chaemono said:

If Nittoh takes out the patents on Hasselblad XCD lenses than it’s Nittoh’s design. https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/the-hasselblad-xcd-30mm-lens-has-been-actually-designed-by-nittoh/

From the link....

“  It’s common from companies to use designs from other companies. Zeiss used Tamron patent designs, Olympus used Sigma patent designs and so on.“

And Leica incorporates stuff from Panasonic, etc.  Still no reason to imply inferiority.

Jeff

Edited January 4, 2020 by Jeff S

[Chaemono]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb Jeff S:

From the link....

“  It’s common from companies to use designs from other companies. Zeiss used Tamron patent designs, Olympus used Sigma patent designs and so on.“

And Leica incorporates stuff from Panasonic, etc.  Still no reason to imply inferiority.

Jeff

No one suggested inferiority but, perhaps, lack of control over quality.  The XCD lenses are compact MF high resolution lenses overall (more or less, still to be checked against a couple of the SL Summicrons) which is impressive in itself.  But let's also name the price that accompanies this, CA and PF.  For the SL primes, this would be totally unacceptable.  See PK's statement starting at minute 2:00 in the Hugh Brownstone interview in the video below.  It's such a different philosophy about being in control of lens design and production in order to ensure lenses of the highest optical performance which not only implies sharpness but also no apochromatic aberrations whatsoever.

 

[jrp]

The main difference visible at this resolution is the background perspective (which is attractive in either case, from .these angel examples)

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

No one suggested inferiority but, perhaps, lack of control over quality.  The XCD lenses are compact MF high resolution lenses overall (more or less, still to be checked against a couple of the SL Summicrons) which is impressive in itself.  But let's also name the price that accompanies this, CA and PF.  For the SL primes, this would be totally unacceptable.  See PK's statement starting at minute 2:00 in the Hugh Brownstone interview in the video below.  It's such a different philosophy about being in control of lens design and production in order to ensure lenses of the highest optical performance which not only implies sharpness but also no apochromatic aberrations whatsoever.

 

I’ve already seen the video several times, thanks. Peter neglected to mention the apparent propensity for those Summicrons to exhibit stiff focus action and/or squeaking. My SL 75 is much stiffer than my zooms, and a good friend had to exchange his.... see separate thread for many other examples.

Quality control comes in many forms.  I wonder who supplied and who agreed to incorporate the original AF motors in the S lenses.  Oops.

Hasselblad XCD lenses are generally superb, as are many other brands these days.  Anyway, I enjoy my own shooting and printing...without need for unscientific third party tests.  But the discussion is entertaining.

Jeff

Edited January 4, 2020 by Jeff S

[Chaemono]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb Jeff S:

[...]
Anyway, I enjoy my own shooting and printing...without need for unscientific third party tests.  But the discussion is entertaining.

Jeff

We can thank biswasg for starting the discussion and asking for image quality comparison.  It’s funny how when finally some  images are presented, everyone wants to end it. 😂

[Jeff S]

10 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

We can thank biswasg for starting the discussion and asking for image quality comparison.  It’s funny how when finally some  images are presented, everyone wants to end it. 😂

The pics aren’t most entertaining part; it’s the editorial comments, conclusions and inferences... not just here but also regarding grips, etc.  People are different and so are experiences and use cases. 

Jeff

[insideline]

12 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

We can thank biswasg for starting the discussion and asking for image quality comparison.  It’s funny how when finally some  images are presented, everyone wants to end it. 😂

The truth is for us that own both systems we already knew that the XCD 80 1.9 is a superior lens to the Leica SL 1.4 or SL 50 APO when combined with the larger sensor on the X1D along with the more accurate colors when striving for the ultimate in image quality. Then when comparing lens quality there is the ongoing problem with most of our Leica SL APO lens manual focus problem, which on my two lenses virtually eliminates their ability to be used in manual mode whereas my XCD lenses all have been flawless. Again, both truly "amazing" systems but each has their strengths, X1D/XCD for ultimate image quality and long exposures, SL2/SL APO also for great image quality and for speed and versatility along with the flexibility to use M and R lenses. Is it any more complicated than this, for me it isn't.

[helged]

9 minutes ago, insideline said:

... there is the ongoing problem with most of our Leica SL APO lens manual focus problem, which on my two lenses virtually eliminates their ability to be used in manual mode... 

Since I don't know: What are the manual focus problems on the Leica SL APO lenses? 

[tom0511]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb helged:

Since I don't know: What are the manual focus problems on the Leica SL APO lenses? 

some are somewhat stiff to focus, and not as smooth as they should be.

 

[insideline]

1 minute ago, helged said:

Since I don't know: What are the manual focus problems on the Leica SL APO lenses? 

There are already posts in the SL section discussing the problem, but in a nutshell a good number of the new SL APO lenses, 35 and 50 in my case, the manual focus ring is so stiff to turn that it virtually eliminates the lens and camera's ability to fine focus in manual mode. Leica informed me that they are aware of the problem but that was all I got. 

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