Would you buy an M10 or an SL? Why?

[Raid Amin]

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Hi All,

 

I am looking for users based facts on why buying an SL may be a better choice than getting an M10 if you will mainly use M lenses. 

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[m9photo]

EVF on SL is awesome!  

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by m9photo

[bherman01545]

I know of several users (personally) who claim that they were unable to obtain sharp images with a Noctilux or Summilux wide open, but can nail the focus when shooting wide open consistently on the SL with focus peaking enabled. You can also use hundreds of lenses - M, R, SL and now third party lenses on an SL and can use the new SL lenses, which are some of the highest rated lenses ever produced.

I don't know about you, but as we get older, it becomes increasingly more difficult for many of us to focus an "M" (quickly and accurately) which makes the SL much more intriguing. 

-Brad

[bherman01545]

+1 for the SL's EVF

Fabulous!

 

[otto.f]

For the bigger lenses like from AE 180 and up, but the AME 100 too, the M10 becomes a less convenient. And this is what it always was: the M is great for wide-angles and normal lenses but at 90 this ideal combination begins to shrink. However, the SL is a heavy beast, which cannot exactly replace the M as a modest, polite inconspicuous and handy camera. You should have an M along the SL. In my case this didn’t need to be an M10. In fact the SL gives a lot more camera for less money than the M10. I have the M9 alongside my SL. 

[Raid Amin]

I have an M8 and an M9 with the new sensor. 

[ru2far2c]

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Have an M240. Bought a SL to use with M lenses only this last June. Bought because of the EVF and few other features over a M10. Yes it is bigger than M10 yet I do not find it that much different than M240 with m lenses in weight. Built in diopter is a plus if you wear glasses. Easier to focus Noctilux ƒ1.0, 24mp is plenty big for my needs when it come to FF camera. With M -> L adaptor the 6bit coding is carried over if that is important to you. If you wanted to later on one can up third party lenses from Sigma or Panasonic. for now I'm happy with M lenses and SL.

[PeterGA]

On 10/23/2019 at 4:34 AM, Raid Amin said:

Hi All,

 

I am looking for users based facts on why buying an SL may be a better choice than getting an M10 if you will mainly use M lenses. 

The M is a nostalgic trip for those who've used one and a kind of aspirational whimsy like totem for many younger  photographers. However there is nothing so special about the M that other camera offerings with far greater amenities can't match or exceed - save for one thing - a viewfinder on the left of the body matched to a brilliant optical experience. The SL and CL are better competition for the mirrorless market - which is mainstream now. 

The SL in particular does a wonderful job with an M lens mated to it- I had a lot of fun with a Noctilux on the front of my SL - so well balanced and (finally) so easy to nail focus wide open- if you add aCL body to the mix you get a very good teleconvertor as well as a fine camera in its own right - M or L mount glass on the CL works a treat - except for the wider wides in my experience.

Of course if you have no use for all that 'stuff' and don't really bother with all the functions and buttons and setup options and video etc - well I'd stick to your M series for everything up to 75mm maybe...eg my  least used M lens was an 90AA on the M (hard to nail focus) - but It was fantastic on the SL and CL.

IF Leica SL and CL had an as good autofocus capability as Sony and Fuji in particular - I couldn't recommend either high enough. It is a serious issue for many types of photography that autofocus is both accurate and quick - the SL is accurate but not quick by any stretch. The M is always quick but even less accurate as far as hit rate goes in fast moving situations unless you can get away with depth of field type shooting - wides are so much easier in this regard not surprising the popularity of M and wides..

Not an easy decision - and you will only know once you've really tried for a while - what really suits you best - it is all so personal really.

 

Good Luck.

[otto.f]

That’s right: SL + CL is about the price of an M10. Although the price of an M10 is justified in the sense that the rangefinder is the best ever in M chronology and the added EVF will surely be responsible for the high price, it remains a lot of money for a narrow domain of photography. Especially when you already own M’s. With the CL you have the surplus value of tele’s becoming even closer to the subject. 

[giampo]

If I would be you and if you will not buy SL lenses, but just stay with M ones, I would get the M10 and an evf to attach to it.

I had the M240 and switched to the SL, and for the first 3 years I only had M lenses, now I changed all the M lenses with the SL ones. Because it is true that the SL works fine the the M lenses, but the M works just excelent and quite better than the SL with the M lenses. In the end I think that doesn't really make sense to spend so much money on fantastic lenses and attach them to a system that ruine the quality of them, even if not that much. 

[Jk1002]

I am planning either used SL or new SL2. Reason is taking pictures in low light, I would like to have focus peaking, I can't focus manually at night. Coming from a M262 though.

With M10 I probably would not consider either, external viewfinder and screen might be good enough for these situations.

 

[willeica]

As economists might say, the M10 and the SL are not substitutes. They represent two completely different design philosophies I have plenty of Ms, including the M10, but the SL holds no interest for me whatsoever because of its size. Other manufacturers have produced similar cameras with wonderful EVFs etc in a much smaller size. Leica would need to get the SL and its lenses down to at least two thirds of their current size to arouse my interest for photographic uses for which the M10 is not suitable. My back up to the M10 is an Huawei P20 or an iPhone. I also have a very large number of vintage Leicas to keep me happy on the film front.

For what it is worth, Sean Reid (who acts as beta tester for Leica) told us at the LHSA AGM last Saturday that M lenses will always work better on the M than on the SL. He also said that diffraction issues will kick in earlier with larger sensor sizes.

William

[Einst_Stein]

The disadvantage of SL, if you may call it that way, is the brutal volume of the SL system. Personally I also think the SL body is not as elegant as the M body. And by the way, the missing of OVF is not acceptable for people must have it. Otherwise SL is a functionally improved system. 

But I find a SL body with M lens is not brutal at all. Just avoid SL lens. Unfortunately, a lot of people will be attempted to SL lens, once own the SL body.

So, get the SL body with M instead of purist M system, if you can:

1. Ignore the “inconvenient” extra hand grip and the “intrusive” middle bump of EVF, if you did not end up enjoying them.

2: live without OVF (be warned.  You will miss the joy of once for a while OVF focus calibration), 

3: resist the temptation to get the brutal volume SL lens.

4:  forget the elegant nice looking M body.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Einst_Stein

[helged]

In my view/experience, the SL Summicrons feel smaller/lighter/better balanced on the SL than e.g. most of the Lux-es, Noctiluxes, 90mm Summicron and longer lenses on the M. And the optical specs are very, very high. The holding comfort improves by adding a handgrip on the M, but then the size is not that different from the SL. But I agree, the numernous smaller M-lenses sit better on the M than on the SL. 

[evikne]

I want a small and discreet camera and would never even consider an SL for my M lenses. I have purchased a Visoflex, but I got tired of it very quickly, and now I almost never use it anymore (only for some close-up shots). The M's rangefinder is much faster and more enjoyable to use than any EVF. And I have no problem nailing focus with any of my fast lenses – four Summilux'es and one Noctilux.

The only challenge is when the subject is moving, but even in those situations I think focusing with the rangefinder is faster and easier than with an EVF.

[m9photo]

Just to add here as many already mentioned. SL is more versatile, you can use any lenses from any manufacturers with adapter or not (L alliance or non).

If you are a simply a purist street photographer then get M10 instead.

The Joy of SL, if you already have M lenses is you can use it anytime, this won't work vice versa.

 

 

[Raid Amin]

Today, I got some new thoughts on the issue of SL vs. M10 (for me).

If I look at my "limited budget" [it is!], then maybe keeping my M9 and getting a Summicron M APO 50mm lens would be more useful to me than adding an M10 or M9. It is a budget issue.

 

[Jared]

You said you would, “mainly M lenses” with the new body.  Which M lenses?  And mainly or exclusively?  If you shoot mostly between 28mm and 50mm I would stick with M bodies for M lenses, whether you replace the M8/9 with an M 10 or decide to get another lens.  An M body with its rangefinder is really the best match for an M lens of moderate focal length.

at 24mm or faster and at 75mm or longer I find the SL is a better match for M lenses.  You’re going to need/want an EVF for anything wider than 28mm.  The SL has a much better EVF than you can add to an M.  That makes it a better choice.  Above 50mm, I don’t find the rangefinder accurate enough for consistently focusing while shooting wide open.  Again, the EVF on the SL is better 5an the clip-on for the M, so I’d recommend the SL for those focal lengths. 
 

To give any more effective or detailed advice, I’d need to know much more about your photographic habits.  Street?  Studio? Moving people? Sports? Landscape? Long exposure/nightscapes?  What do you shoot?

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[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, Raid Amin said:

Today, I got some new thoughts on the issue of SL vs. M10 (for me).

If I look at my "limited budget" [it is!], then maybe keeping my M9 and getting a Summicron M APO 50mm lens would be more useful to me than adding an M10 or M9. It is a budget issue.

 

Sounds more like a goal issue than a budget issue.  What specifically are you trying to accomplish besides owning more gear?  Answer that, then decide what you can afford.

Jeff

[DirkS]

For me M-lenses and CL are the best of both worlds. A small not heavy combination for great pics and the possibility to use all tele-lenses, too.

I would keep the M9 and add a CL.