*4* New Summarits

[lars_bergquist]

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This thread seems to be running more and more to lenscaps and Porsches. Rétournons à nos moutons:

 

I am not the man to judge the new Summarit lenses, first because I have not seen or tested them yet (a characteristic I suspect I have in common with most of the posters here) and second, because I won't buy any of them. I am knee deep in Leica glass – well, relatively speaking, not in the Mancuso league – but the only Leica lenses I have ever bought new are the two current Summiluxes.

 

I note however that Leica have not yet attended to the obvious holes in their lens lineup. The first one is that we need the 16mm f/4 prime lens that Guy too has ben plugging for, as a genuine alternative to the present monstrosities below and above deck. I am not doing anything desperate because I now have a 'Miliched' CV15, but good as it is, it is a jury-rigged thing. – The second is a rescue of the 135mm focal length by way of an Apo-Telyt with goggles. Yes, I have a fine 135mm Elmarit, but it is a big and heavy beast, and while demand is increasing, the supply is not, and the prices are rising. And while it is good, an Apo-Telyt it is not.

 

Then there is a death list, if we like it or not. Mine is the 90mm Elmarit, the Macro-Elmar, 50mm Elmar, 50mm Summicron – yes! – and the 50mm Noctilux. There is a limit to the inventory and the different products that can be reasonably kept alive, if Leica wants to show a healthy profit.

 

The old man from the Age of the IIIa

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[wlaidlaw]

 

Then there is a death list, if we like it or not. Mine is the 90mm Elmarit, the Macro-Elmar, 50mm Elmar, 50mm Summicron – yes! – and the 50mm Noctilux. There is a limit to the inventory and the different products that can be reasonably kept alive, if Leica wants to show a healthy profit.

 

The old man from the Age of the IIIa

 

Lars,

 

I have been thinking about this and I am not sure I agree that any lenses need killing off. Leica has the tooling, which must in most cases, have been totally amortised by now. There would be nothing to stop Leica from time to time, making a batch of these low demand lenses, as long they can source the glass blanks for the lens elements. They will probably be producing special "Anniversary" Summicrons and Elmars long after we are planted.

 

I agree that a 16 or 18mm f4 would be my priority for a new lens.

 

Wilson

[Joop van Heijgen]

"Then there is a death list, if we like it or not. Mine is the 90mm Elmarit, the Macro-Elmar, 50mm Elmar, 50mm Summicron – yes! – and the 50mm Noctilux."

 

The most M Leica lenses will remain! The Summarits are a temporary scala of 'trading down' (cheaper?) lenses. Within a few years Leica will stop with the Summarits!

[bill]

"Then there is a death list, if we like it or not. Mine is the 90mm Elmarit, the Macro-Elmar, 50mm Elmar, 50mm Summicron – yes! – and the 50mm Noctilux."

 

The most M Leica lenses will remain! The Summarits are a temporary scala of 'trading down' (cheaper?) lenses. Within a few years Leica will stop with the Summarits!

 

Joop, do you have inside information? what makes you think this is a temporary move? It makes great sense to me to have a "cheaper" range.

 

As to the death list, I can see the demise of the Elmarit, but the Macro-Elmar and the 50mm Elmar-M are "unique" in the current lineup in their compactness and suitability for travel. I keep my M7 in a belt pouch with the 50mm attached as a default. Equally I can't see the demise of the other two fifties - one is legendary, the other unique.

 

Best regards,

 

Bill

[Guest guy_mancuso]

My hope and wish list for Leica is a 15mm F4 and than a new 24 and 21mm F2 asph, so we have some serious fast lens in the really wides.

 

Now i love this idea of the Summarits and mentioned this style a long time ago and glad to see them serve this part of the market which will help folks get in the door on the M8 but they don't serve me well and many others that still want fast glass, so my hope is Leica will serve both markets and continue to make lenses that cost is somewhat secondary.

 

i think if you look at folks on the 28mm level of buyers . Some will go for the 28 cron and others will go for the 28 2.8 and that decision is usually based on money than the speed of the lens or more weight of buying on costs. Leica in my mind needs to serve 2 types of buyers . Cost sensitive and Money is not the issue buyers.

[lct]

...I can see the demise of the Elmarit, but the Macro-Elmar and the 50mm Elmar-M are "unique" in the current lineup in their compactness and suitability for travel... Equally I can't see the demise of the other two fifties - one is legendary, the other unique...

Was my thinking as well but 5 different versions of the same focal length are perhaps too many given that the Summarit is very small, that 50mm is not a 'normal' focal length for the M8 and that Leica don't advise to collapse the Elmar on the latter.

So Noctilux OK, Summilux OK, Summicron (or Cron asph) OK, Summarit OK (hopefully) but the Elmar 50 could well be the victim of digital 'progress' i'm afraid.

Hope i'm wrong though...

[SteveP]

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Anyone have catalog numbers for the new lenses yet? They don't seem to be listed on the Leica website.

[wlaidlaw]

Leica don't advise to collapse the Elmar on the latter.

 

I am not sure where this comes from. I have a new coded Elmar-M 50. It does not say anything in the lens instructions about not collapsing the lens on an M8, neither does it say anything in the M8 manual. Both Jaap and I have carefully checked the collapsed clearance of the back of the lens to the shutter and we both came up independently with the same clearance figure of 2mm. I have been happily collapsing mine for three months now with no problems.

 

Wilson

[stunsworth]

It does seem a bit potty to have 90mm lenses with max apertures of f2, f2.5, f2.8 and f4.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Here we go just got the US prices from Leica. Very nice prices for Leica glass IMHO

 

Catalog # Description M.S.P.

11-643 Leica Summarit-M 35 mm/f2.5, black anodized finish $1,495.00

11-644 Leica Summarit-M 50 mm/f2.5, black anodized finish $1,195.00

11-645 Leica Summarit-M 75 mm/f2.5, black anodized finish $1,495.00

11-646 Leica Summarit-M 90 mm/f2.5, black anodized finish $1,495.00

 

 

Here are some sample pictures:

Leica Camera AG - Photography - Summarit-M Lenses

Launch of Summarit-M Series.pdf

[lars_bergquist]

Lars,

 

I have been thinking about this and I am not sure I agree that any lenses need killing off. Leica has the tooling, which must in most cases, have been totally amortised by now. There would be nothing to stop Leica from time to time, making a batch of these low demand lenses, as long they can source the glass blanks for the lens elements. They will probably be producing special "Anniversary" Summicrons and Elmars long after we are planted.

 

I agree that a 16 or 18mm f4 would be my priority for a new lens.

 

Wilson

 

Wilson,

 

if this were correct, why has the 75mm Summilux been killed off? There is a certain minimum 'movement' off the shelves that is needed if the item is going to earn some net revenue. Pricey 'resurrections' or 'limited editions' or 'anniversary lenses' are one thing, the list of permanently available items is something else entirely. And believe me, with Mr Lee in the saddle, nostalgia will have to be rampant and large-volume and well funded if it is to result in even limited production.

 

The old man from the Age of Henry Ford

[lct]

I am not sure where this comes from. I have a new coded Elmar-M 50. It does not say anything in the lens instructions about not collapsing the lens on an M8, neither does it say anything in the M8 manual...

Hi Wilson.

Not quite sure either but all Elmar's tubes have not the same physical length. The one with my M6J (1996) for instance is a bit longer than both my 2004 and 1962 versions.

Also some Elmar's tube may wobble more or less with use and may then hit the roller cam of the rangefinder which is very close as you can see on this pic.

Not an M8 though (M4-2 and 2004 Elmar).

FWIW

 

[marknorton]

Yes, 5 50s, 4 90s, 3 35s would appear to call for some rationalisation.

 

The most likely candidate for the chop IMHO is the 90/2.8, which is slower and more expensive than the Summarit-M. As for the two Elmars, surely only the macro capability keeps the 90/4 alive and the 50/2.8 is a curiosity which may or may not survive the bean counters.

 

If you think of 35mm as the new "normal", we have 12 lenses longer than normal (I've assumed the 75/1.4 is gone) and only 5 lenses wider. Seems clear where Leica need to turn their attention to next.

[jaapv]

drivers car? This is a drivers car

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Then why is it standing in a layby with nobody behind the wheel?

[bill]

... As for the two Elmars, surely only the macro capability keeps the 90/4 alive and the 50/2.8 is a curiosity which may or may not survive the bean counters...

 

...and their compactness and portability. The 50mm Elmar-M in particular makes the M a pocketable camera, and is the only lens in the current lineup that does so.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[wlaidlaw]

Wilson,

 

if this were correct, why has the 75mm Summilux been killed off? There is a certain minimum 'movement' off the shelves that is needed if the item is going to earn some net revenue. Pricey 'resurrections' or 'limited editions' or 'anniversary lenses' are one thing, the list of permanently available items is something else entirely. And believe me, with Mr Lee in the saddle, nostalgia will have to be rampant and large-volume and well funded if it is to result in even limited production.

 

The old man from the Age of Henry Ford

 

Lars,

 

It has been postulated that there was difficulty in sourcing one or more of the glass blanks for the elements of the 75 Lux. I would guess the current Noctilux will die for the same reason. It was said that the nearest glass blanks they could have got, would have necessitated a lens redesign. In those cases I would certainly see any low-demand lens killed off. I did say that they would only make lenses as long as they could easily source the components. Modern low volume batch production techniques and out-sourcing of components should enable Leica to keep producing a number of low demand lenses. Whether there is the will to do so is another matter.

 

Wilson

[marknorton]

Trouble is, given there is a minimum economic production run, that's a lot of inventory to have sitting around chewing up finance as they trickle out the door.

 

Did I hear someone say Digilux 3?

[wlaidlaw]

Did I hear someone say Digilux 3?

 

Now I have been carrying around the M8 and either Noctilux or CV 35/1.2 Nokton for the past few weeks, I almost feel strong enough to carry around a Digilux 3 - but not quite.

 

Wilson

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[carstenw]

I don't think that Leica can successfully compete with Voigtländer with these lenses. There will surely be people who will buy them instead of the various Skopars and so on, but they will most likely be in the minority. I do believe that Leica will take the wind out of Zeiss's sails with them, however, as do many of us. The more sophisticated Zeiss lenses will continue to have their customers, as well as various specialised lenses, but the ones which overlap with the new Summitars will likely see a sharp sales drop. Leica camera customers will tend to buy Leica lenses, as long as they can afford to.

 

However, there is another "competitor" which Leica may be partly aiming at: the second-hand market. There are a lot of people looking for good or very good older lenses, to save a little money after shelling out for a very expensive camera. The kind of people who might buy a 35/2 IV. I am here not talking about people like lct who *prefers* it to the modern lenses, but more to the kind of people who might frequent second-hand markets, looking for a good deal on a good old lens to fill a gap.

 

I still find it very surprising that the lenses are only standard and tele, on the M8. Half the focal length range has not been covered here, and the strongest half, in many ways. There are lots of good teles out there, but the wide angles on the M platform are quite possibly the best (and most compact) wide-angle lenses out there. Comparing them to SLR lenses at the very wide end, they are even very affordable, in some cases.

 

I think that the logical followup to the Summitars would be 21/25 or 21/24/28 f/3.5 or f/4 lenses, to round out the more affordable Leica lens lineup.

[jackal]

If you tried my DMS engined 996 with 540 BHP and GT3 suspension, you might change your mind.

 

Wilson

 

 

 

hmmm, ill admit that if its been fettled a La GT3RS then thats completely different but having said that, power means nothing in a decent road car. The GT3RS won't charm like the 993rs either ... nothing like it.

 

and as matey up there says, id sooner drive a standard integrale (stonking cars) than a basic 996. Power means diddly squat on the public highway... in fact, the less a car has, and the less grip, usually the more fun you will have.