Visoflex 020 upgrade

[mdemeyer]

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On 9/26/2019 at 8:09 AM, 01maciel said:

So, whats wrong with the Visoflex 020 apart from a) size b) battery drainage c) causing high temperatures d) clunky design and e) low resolution ?  😚

When I use it my nose falls directly into the OVF, getting nose grease on the diopter.  

Perhaps I need to relocate my nose.  

🙂

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[jdlaing]

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[strohscw]

Am 26.9.2019 um 21:38 schrieb lucerne:

The op (who is located in Austria, not Miami,)  has started this thread with a title  Visoflex 020 upgrade.   Presumably he has this device but we know it’s the only available option and it sounds like he wants an improved/enhanced one.  I can’t imagine why.  Maybe he hasn’t tried the device.   The External 020 will provide an electronic view with any of his Focal length lenses fitted to his m10.   Alternatively, perhaps he’s asking for an internal evf which isn’t part of the m10.      
if that’s the case, he needs to go through all the discussions on the subject.  

 

Well I think the technology for EVF improved, means I think that there should be the possibility to have an external EVF with higher pixel count and higher refresh rate within the same size.

greetings

Wolfram

 

 

[jaapv]

Rather unlikely. We had exactly the same discussions for the M240 and EVF2. Leica even tried to develop one and found it impossible. I doubt that they are willing to waste resources on this again. In fact, knowing Leica,  it is not unlikely that the Visoflex 020 may have to serve for the M11 as well. Leica regards it (justly) as  an accessory to the camera to expand its usefulness with macro and tele, nothing more. They don't even bother to bring out lenses for this use, like they did in the past with the original Visoflexes. Of course, it doubles up as a wideangle viewfinder too.

As far as Leica is concerned - and they are following their core customer base here- the Leica M is an OVF-RF camera.
For customers wishing to use an EVF they offer the SL, CL and Q.

[Macberg]

Am 27.9.2019 um 02:07 schrieb frame-it:

A new  version of the 020 without GPS might help with saving battery power

You know that you can turn off GPS, don't you?

[frame-it]

53 minutes ago, Macberg said:

You know that you can turn off GPS, don't you?

yes i know that..i was replying to a visoflex upgrade question..perhaps smaller in size, no GPS, less power consumption etc etc

Edited September 28, 2019 by frame-it

[james.liam]

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3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Rather unlikely. We had exactly the same discussions for the M240 and EVF2. Leica even tried to develop one and found it impossible.

So they learned nothing from that experience and released the 020 as a-less-then-top-flight bit of kit?

[frame-it]

16 minutes ago, james.liam said:

So they learned nothing from that experience and released the 020 as a-less-then-top-flight bit of kit?

which was designed for the T-series and apparently sometimes simply slides off the M10 ???

[jaapv]

Like the M 240 - the best available external EVF at the time of design. I doubt whether there was any lesson to be learnt. The real problem with M cameras is that it is very hard to pack sufficient computing power in a vintage-type concept. You will always be struggling with heat.

[scott kirkpatrick]

8 hours ago, Macberg said:

You know that you can turn off GPS, don't you?

Not on the M10-D, you can't.  A minor, but annoying oversight in the Fotos implementation (so far).

[Macberg]

vor einer Stunde schrieb scott kirkpatrick:

Not on the M10-D, you can't.  A minor, but annoying oversight in the Fotos implementation (so far).

Hmmm, I don't know whether you can access the GPS-functionality through the Fotos-app, I haven't tried that yet.

However, you can deactivate the GPS of the Visoflex through the camera's menu. So even if the M10-D hasn't got a display, you can still see the camera-menu (or isn't there any possibilty to access a menu on the M10-D at all except through the app?) through the visoflex, can't you? Can't you just deactivate the GPS-funcion there?

Edited September 28, 2019 by Macberg

[scott kirkpatrick]

No, Fotos only sees selected parts of the menus.  The control to turn the GPS off has not been made visible yet.  I have an M10-D.  I have tried. And you can't see the menus through the VF20 on any model of M10.

Edited September 28, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

[pico]

1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

And you can't see the menus through the VF20 on any model of M10.

I can use the menus on my M10 through the Visoflex 020.
Turn on LV.

Details:

• Body 5190547
• Firmware 2.7.5.0
• Visoflex Typ 020 #PA025239

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by pico

[Macberg]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb scott kirkpatrick:

[...] And you can't see the menus through the VF20 on any model of M10.

I can see through my Visoflex (Type 020) exactly the same things that I can see on my rear screen (I have the M10), and that includes all the menus, so even if my rear screen didn't work, I could still access all the menus. That's why I wondered if maybe you could do the same thing with the M10-D...without the Fotos-app. But I guess the M10-D misses some hardware-buttons on its body to navigate through the menu?

In the photo (taken through the Visofelx with my mobile phone) you can see one of the menus (in German; 'GPS' is highlighted, is turned off but could be turned on right there), the purple dot in the upper section is the eye sensor which assumed that my mobile phone was my eye which activated the Visoflex.

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Edited September 29, 2019 by Macberg

[scott kirkpatrick]

4 hours ago, Macberg said:

I can see through my Visoflex (Type 020) exactly the same things that I can see on my rear screen (I have the M10), and that includes all the menus, so even if my rear screen didn't work, I could still access all the menus. That's why I wondered if maybe you could do the same thing with the M10-D...without the Fotos-app. But I guess the M10-D misses some hardware-buttons on its body to navigate through the menu?

In the photo (taken through the Visofelx with my mobile phone) you can see one of the menus (in German; 'GPS' is highlighted, is turned off but could be turned on right there), the purple dot in the upper section is the eye sensor which assumed that my mobile phone was my eye which activated the Visoflex.

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I owe you an apology.  I guess I didn't check this on my M10.  You definitely can't see them on the M10-D, perhaps because you can't reach them with any control on the camera.  I am told what FOTOS does is pass a request for menu status to a server which is the WiFi interface maintained on the camera.  The server then checks if the request is allowed, and if so passes a string back to FOTOS, which then lists it in a somewhat menu-like form on your phone/tablet screen.  But Fotos doesn't "see into the menus" in a way that matches the M10 or M10P.  I have only the M10-D with me this week, so can't check much further.

Edited September 29, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

18 hours ago, pico said:

I can use the menus on my M10 through the Visoflex 020.
Turn on LV.

Details:

• Body 5190547
• Firmware 2.7.5.0
• Visoflex Typ 020 #PA025239

 

That's interesting.  It would not have occurred to me to turn on LV while flipping through the menus but that must put in place the extra data path required.

[tobey bilek]

Every EVF I have seen the vf can not keep up with moving the camera (panning) and I wonder that not acceptable.  I do not see the rush to buy the things.

[Guest]

On 9/29/2019 at 5:37 PM, scott kirkpatrick said:

That's interesting.  It would not have occurred to me to turn on LV while flipping through the menus but that must put in place the extra data path required.

So....if that facility is there in the M10 I wonder if it is still buried in the innards of the M10-D too? The cameras are basically the same under the skin I believe, so that's the case then it would be great if Leica could find a way for users to access the camera's menu via the Visoflex 020 as a welcome alternative to Fotos.

And again here I would like to NUDGE Leica once more for a long overdue and meaningful firmware upgrade to the M10-D like a menu option to turn OFF the GPS function with the M10-D when using the 020 for those that don't want to use it or unnecessarily waste battery as it's on whether you want GPS or not, and one that would expand the camera's capabilities as suggested above for instance.

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[scott kirkpatrick]

Seeing this stuff on the VF20 would be nice, and should happen since the M10-D turns live view on when ever the VF20 is installed. But it might not be enabled since Fotos can also read stuff from the menus over a somewhat different path.   I would also like to see VF20 info exported to the FOTOS app  for viewing only (such as the histogram).  I think fixing a few of these things would make the M10-D sell for several more years, as they work on the M10-M and the M11, but that's Jesko's call, not ours.

[J.Nordvik]

On 9/26/2019 at 5:09 PM, 01maciel said:

So, whats wrong with the Visoflex 020 apart from a) size b) battery drainage c) causing high temperatures d) clunky design and e) low resolution ?  😚

Low resolution.

2,4 MP is not that low.

Sony A7/A9: 2,4 except A7Riii and A9 (3,7) and A7Riv (5,8).

Fuji: 2,4 or lower except GTX-100 (5,8) and 50R and X-T3 (3,7)

Olympus: 2,4 is max.

Panasonic: S1 and SiR: 5,8

Canon: EOS RP: 2,4 EOS R: 3,7

Nikon Z6/Z7: 3,7

Leica: SL: 4,4 Q2: 3,7

 

It looks like there are only a handful of EVF with better resolution, but I might have forgotten some.