Looking for compact camera to pair with my S

[ZHNL]

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I have M10p with 15/21/35/50/90 M glass and Z7 with Nikon zoom. I think both qualify as small system. 

I have used A7r1/2 and A71/2 but never like them in the end.  I think Z7 with 24-70f4 is the most versatile small package cover wide range due to high pixel count. I constantly get 60-100M for stitching at wide end and still can get 105mm at 20M using their DX mode. The lens performance is so good that if you don’t want speed, that is all you need. Saying this from who have access of many high end glasses. I wish I can post some examples if this is not a Leica forum. 

Nikon has option to shoot smaller raw so that you don’t have to deal with 45M for every single click and Nikon’s format ratio crop is real crop at raw level compare to Panasonic S1R you have. You get true 1X1 and 8X10, no pixel get wasted.

However it is not a OVF camera and I prefer OVF even EVF give many real information during shooting, but I guess some of those information are less needed for experienced shooter.

I use to have Sony RX1, one of smallest high performance camera. Its 35mm sonnar is still the 35mm king upto today. It is not only sharp but also have one of best bokeh I ever seems from 35mm lens. However, ergonomic is not its plus but size make me forget its quirk and choose it over Leica Q without hesitation. RX1II should be even better with 42M. However, with Z7 and 24-70, like a RX1 on steroid, I sold my RX1, but I recommend it highly for anyone want a small high end system.

 

[Greg Haag]

1 hour ago, ZHNL said:

I have M10p with 15/21/35/50/90 M glass and Z7 with Nikon zoom. I think both qualify as small system. 

I have used A7r1/2 and A71/2 but never like them in the end.  I think Z7 with 24-70f4 is the most versatile small package cover wide range due to high pixel count. I constantly get 60-100M for stitching at wide end and still can get 105mm at 20M using their DX mode. The lens performance is so good that if you don’t want speed, that is all you need. Saying this from who have access of many high end glasses. I wish I can post some examples if this is not a Leica forum. 

Nikon has option to shoot smaller raw so that you don’t have to deal with 45M for every single click and Nikon’s format ratio crop is real crop at raw level compare to Panasonic S1R you have. You get true 1X1 and 8X10, no pixel get wasted.

However it is not a OVF camera and I prefer OVF even EVF give many real information during shooting, but I guess some of those information are less needed for experienced shooter.

I use to have Sony RX1, one of smallest high performance camera. Its 35mm sonnar is still the 35mm king upto today. It is not only sharp but also have one of best bokeh I ever seems from 35mm lens. However, ergonomic is not its plus but size make me forget its quirk and choose it over Leica Q without hesitation. RX1II should be even better with 42M. However, with Z7 and 24-70, like a RX1 on steroid, I sold my RX1, but I recommend it highly for anyone want a small high end system.

 

Thank you for all the great information!

[Photon42]

I completely understand the ask to carry a second, smallish camera. After some experiments I finally did land with a Fuji X100F. Why? It is really small compared to the Q. It does not cost a crazy amount of money. It has good enough AF. Did I mention it is small ...? I love the viewfinder combined with AF. It has a central shutter and a built-in flash. If it has to be Leica - I would probably go for the CL with the 23mm. The Sony RX100 Mark whatever would be a second option. Even smaller, surprisingly good IQ.

 

[ZHNL]

For really small camera, you should also put Ricoh’s GR in consideration. That is a truly pocketable camera with very good lens. 

[lykaman]

Don't forget the lovely and very competent C-Lux.

[albertknappmd]

the Q2 is amazing. My wife uses it exclusively but can do 28, 50 and 75mm focal lengths due to 47MP screen.

Personally, I would get a new L as the upgrade will be coming soon and it can use your S and M lenses.

Albert

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[Greg Haag]

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1 hour ago, albertknappmd said:

the Q2 is amazing. My wife uses it exclusively but can do 28, 50 and 75mm focal lengths due to 47MP screen.

Personally, I would get a new L as the upgrade will be coming soon and it can use your S and M lenses.

Albert

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Beautiful image!  

[tom0511]

My 2 small cameras are a Q2 and a Canon g1xiii. Right now I use the Q2 more often. Q2 with 46MP gives me the freedom to crop to 35 and 50 mm FOV without problems.

[Greg Haag]

1 hour ago, tom0511 said:

My 2 small cameras are a Q2 and a Canon g1xiii. Right now I use the Q2 more often. Q2 with 46MP gives me the freedom to crop to 35 and 50 mm FOV without problems.

Thanks Tom, I have been watching the image posts in the Q2 section and they look great!  That would be my leaning today.

[Photon42]

But then your compact machine would have more megapixels than the heap of iron ... not acceptable 😬

Btw I am just on vacation and the combo of S and X100F works well indeed. I know, it’s a Fuji 😶

[peterv]

Speaking of Fuji, I'm doing a wedding next week with Instax only 🙂

I'm bringing my Leica Sofort and a Fuji Instax Wide 100.

Not a compact solution, but it's nice for casual photography and in my experience people love having a physical print, however small.

[sincurves]

On 7/22/2019 at 10:02 PM, Greg Haag said:

I apologize in advance for posting a non S question on the S forum, but I felt like this would be the group that would best understand my need.  I want to sell some of my non S gear and get a compact camera to have when weight or space is an issue.  Has anyone gone down this road that might have some suggestions? 

Thanks in advance,

Greg

Hard to beat the Ricoh GR III for compactness and sheer fun. 

[Greg Haag]

5 hours ago, sincurves said:

Hard to beat the Ricoh GR III for compactness and sheer fun. 

I keep hearing good things about that camera, I will relook at that option.

Thanks,

Greg

[LeicaS2]

Greg,

As a long time S user, I never wanted to give up the option of printing huge. I print and sell 90x60 on occasion. But there are times when I too wanted a smaller camera that would fit in a pocket. Yes, a cell phone does too, but it's not fun to hold.

I settled on a Leica CL when the kit of a CL and 18mm were offered at an attractive price. There is a rather famous Leicaman who also shoots the combo of S and CL: David Farkas of Leica Miami. With a APS-C size, the sensor is basically 1/4 of the S. What you gain in small AF lenses vs the SL or S is what makes it compact. I now have the 18mm, the 11-23, the 55-135 and just now a sigma 45mm which is amazingly compact for a AF lens.  

The CL as I have it set up, has a bunch of add ons which shows you I use it as a tool not a jewel. I have a stick-on thumb rest, a stick on hand grip in front, and sometimes an optical clip-on finder.

A word of warning: While Leica is all about simplicity, the CL seems to have more options than the S, and as a result for the first few months I could shoot the S faster than the CL, as I needed to learn a new system. Going to Fuji or something else would have taken longer.

I am going to a museum tomorrow that doesn't allow tripods or camera bags. I will have the S across over my shoulder, and the CL in my pocket.

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[Greg Haag]

1 hour ago, LeicaS2 said:

Greg,

As a long time S user, I never wanted to give up the option of printing huge. I print and sell 90x60 on occasion. But there are times when I too wanted a smaller camera that would fit in a pocket. Yes, a cell phone does too, but it's not fun to hold.

I settled on a Leica CL when the kit of a CL and 18mm were offered at an attractive price. There is a rather famous Leicaman who also shoots the combo of S and CL: David Farkas of Leica Miami. With a APS-C size, the sensor is basically 1/4 of the S. What you gain in small AF lenses vs the SL or S is what makes it compact. I now have the 18mm, the 11-23, the 55-135 and just now a sigma 45mm which is amazingly compact for a AF lens.  

The CL as I have it set up, has a bunch of add ons which shows you I use it as a tool not a jewel. I have a stick-on thumb rest, a stick on hand grip in front, and sometimes an optical clip-on finder.

A word of warning: While Leica is all about simplicity, the CL seems to have more options than the S, and as a result for the first few months I could shoot the S faster than the CL, as I needed to learn a new system. Going to Fuji or something else would have taken longer.

I am going to a museum tomorrow that doesn't allow tripods or camera bags. I will have the S across over my shoulder, and the CL in my pocket.

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Thank you very much, that looks like a great combination!  I will take a look at the CL.

[dave.gt]

1 hour ago, LeicaS2 said:

Greg,

As a long time S user, I never wanted to give up the option of printing huge. I print and sell 90x60 on occasion. But there are times when I too wanted a smaller camera that would fit in a pocket. Yes, a cell phone does too, but it's not fun to hold.

I settled on a Leica CL when the kit of a CL and 18mm were offered at an attractive price. There is a rather famous Leicaman who also shoots the combo of S and CL: David Farkas of Leica Miami. With a APS-C size, the sensor is basically 1/4 of the S. What you gain in small AF lenses vs the SL or S is what makes it compact. I now have the 18mm, the 11-23, the 55-135 and just now a sigma 45mm which is amazingly compact for a AF lens.  

The CL as I have it set up, has a bunch of add ons which shows you I use it as a tool not a jewel. I have a stick-on thumb rest, a stick on hand grip in front, and sometimes an optical clip-on finder.

A word of warning: While Leica is all about simplicity, the CL seems to have more options than the S, and as a result for the first few months I could shoot the S faster than the CL, as I needed to learn a new system. Going to Fuji or something else would have taken longer.

I am going to a museum tomorrow that doesn't allow tripods or camera bags. I will have the S across over my shoulder, and the CL in my pocket.

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That is  a great combination there! Love it!

Not being able to afford another camera, I make do with the tiny Leica X1 in my bag alongside the S....and dream of an M10.  

I must look at the CL one day when I find someone here in Atlanta who has one.(?)

[albertknappmd]

I tried the CL and Q2 on a recent visit to David Farkas. The CL is well made but too many options. The Q2 is simple, elegant and effective. 

Furthermore the Q2 sensor is bigger and allows reasonable 50mm and 75mm shots. It is also weatherproofed... 

A hard choice perhaps but I lean toward the Q2. My wife, as I mentioned loves the Q2 and like the old AMEX saying... Never leaves home without it!

Albert

 

 

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Edited August 24, 2019 by albertknappmd

[Photon42]

I would have thought the CL and the Q aren't worlds apart regarding options. Lens options don't count, of course 😎. Compared to the CL with an 18mm, for me the main differences are size, no AF-On option on the CL, no close-up focus on the CL and the smaller sensor, which limits the crop ability.

[TomLiles]

Hi Greg,

I'm not sure I'll add much to this, but I use an S typ006 for work (an S2-P previous to that) and bought an M9 January of last year for my personal use. The M9 has been fantastic for me, though the more I use it, the less "general purpose" a type of camera it becomes---I find that for people oriented pictures, esp, environmental portraits: friends, family, my wife and kids and so on, there is nothing better. Really. It might be the best thing for those pictures that I have ever used.
For the quality of the jpegs alone the M9 is worth the price of admission, in my view. A future-classic, if you will (though framing this like an investment is not my intention or interest). They won't be around forever, so if you find a clean one I can heartily recommend giving one a go while we still can; you can get out the other side almost pain free if it's not for you and you decide to sell-on.

I did once try to use the M9 as a b-roll camera for a fashion shoot I did on the S typ006, and the colors were kind of close and I could make them look similar at a glance (I was of course working with DNG from the M9; I only ever shoot DNG on the S), but, for me, there was a clear gap in quality ("quality" a slippery shorthand for a basket of things I like in the image) between the two---very much in favor of the S. It was interesting because without the S files to compare to, the M9 files were a-OK. Up to A3, I am sure the differences would be more aesthetic than technical.

So, from an initial place of "this is my compact S-companion cam; maybe I can use for it work alongside the S, and instead of the S for personal stuff" I actually ended up with a specialist people camera that I use like a film era camera loaded with color reversal stock. The quality of the JPEGs make it almost like having two cameras for the price of one (one look for DNGs, one for the JPEGs; but definitely JPEG default output) and I will never let mine go. At the mo', I am torn between getting another one, while the going is good (batteries still available etc) or try the M Monochrom (first one). I have three kids so I can only choose one -- one option, not one child 😅 -- and I'm done for another year!

But I am still left with my specialist work camera (S), specialist documentary/people camera (M9)... but no general purpose, compact, camera that would pair well with the S---in my case when I say "pair well with the S" I mean supply quality and user experience commensurate with my S camera.

I gave, and still give, the TL2 and TL-lenses a heavy amount of thought -- the APS-C sensor size is the right step down from the 30x45 "pro format" to adopt the old cinematographer's rule of doubling diagonals [8, 16, 35, 70mm etc]; some details on the TL-bodies and lenses look S-inpsired -- but I can never get past the way the TL-body dials turn the wrong way for me (against the meter) and can't be changed. I have years worth of muscle memory with the S, which pays my way, and I don't want to poison that well by introducing something with "wrong" oriented controls. The TL2 autofocus not being great (but better than T and TL) is workable, though not welcome; manual focus implementation is where it crosses the line: a bit too focus-by-wire-y.

I realized I was quite happy just using my old S2-P body for personal stuff (esp. non people things); though much of the happiness comes after the fact when I look at the captured pictures and not when I'm lugging it about on walks, or on trips to the park etc. But since an S-body is obviously too big for many personal occasions: I soldier on with an iPhone and the Lr Mobile App camera. It's neat what you can get in some light with that, truly... not even in the same astral plane as the S vis-a-vis "quality," without a doubt, and so the (not so determined) search goes on. Maybe it's an impossible ask? 🤔

Be good to hear how you go, Greg.

Cheers

Tom

Edited August 26, 2019 by TomLiles

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[John McMaster]

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4 minutes ago, TomLiles said:

 It was interesting because without the S files to compare to, the M9 files were a-OK. Up to A3, I am sure the differences would be more aesthetic than technical.

 

Tom

That is my finding as well, the M lenses look good on-line but do not really hold up (IMO) with the S at A3 or larger (CCD Monochrom and 50 APO excepted ;-))

john