A miller Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share #21 Posted June 16, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 minute ago, logan2z said: They're 'different' but are they in some way incompatible with the old cameras? The email from Youxin that you posted implied that the lugs were still being manufactured but that Youxin thought they were of poor quality. I'm not really sure wht that means. It seems like a pretty simple part to get so wrong but what do I know. I am also stumped by that but he clearly said that the lugs for the MP and M-A are "totally different" from the M3 (which I would assume extends to the M4 and M2 etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 Hi A miller, Take a look here Strap lugs, just sayin'. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
logan2z Posted June 16, 2019 Share #22 Posted June 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Jeff S said: Has anyone asked DAG? Has anyone asked Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan2z Posted June 16, 2019 Share #23 Posted June 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, A miller said: I am also stumped by that but he clearly said that the lugs for the MP and M-A are "totally different" from the M3 (which I would assume extends to the M4 and M2 etc) Probably time to drop Leica an email in order to clarify the situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted June 16, 2019 Share #24 Posted June 16, 2019 When I used my M4 some decades ago, once in a while, the brass lugs came loose (in "hard use, they turned first then detached if not replaced in time). They are attached to the body with one rivet on each lug. When I have MP, my observation of the steel lugs let me more confident as they are attached with two screws. Same screwed steel lugs with M-A and I have also M6 with those screwed lugs and former M6 from 1985/86 were not screwed but riveted steel lugs. To resume, I may be wrong of course... my observation, as user only, not as tech who replace those lugs: M2/M4 riveted brass lugs, maybe late M3 some M6 riveted steel lugs some M6 two screwed steel lugs MP/M-A two screwed steel lugs 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 16, 2019 Share #25 Posted June 16, 2019 3 hours ago, logan2z said: Has anyone asked Leica? After years, they still haven’t been clear about S lens AF parts failure. Much more effective and quicker to ask folks like DAG who have no motive to defend or be quiet. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted June 17, 2019 Share #26 Posted June 17, 2019 7 hours ago, a.noctilux said: When I used my M4 some decades ago, once in a while, the brass lugs came loose (in "hard use, they turned first then detached if not replaced in time). They are attached to the body with one rivet on each lug. When I have MP, my observation of the steel lugs let me more confident as they are attached with two screws. Same screwed steel lugs with M-A and I have also M6 with those screwed lugs and former M6 from 1985/86 were not screwed but riveted steel lugs. To resume, I may be wrong of course... my observation, as user only, not as tech who replace those lugs: M2/M4 riveted brass lugs, maybe late M3 some M6 riveted steel lugs some M6 two screwed steel lugs MP/M-A two screwed steel lugs That would seem to be the correct assumption. I know that Leica had a problem in 2013 with the two screws coming loose. This was put down to reduced quality control when production switched from Germany to Portugal. It only affected one small batch, a recall was implemented by Leica and the problem seems to be a thing of the past. Some very good input to this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted June 19, 2019 Share #27 Posted June 19, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks Adam. My TTL has brass lugs which are thinning so this is a bit concerning. If possible I'll probably have them replaced for steel lugs. On 6/16/2019 at 5:01 AM, A miller said: I have on good information that there will be a strap lug shortage for old film Ms. Leica stopped making them and supplying replacement parts. Contrary to what some might think, these things do come loose from time to time.... 😳 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 20, 2019 Share #28 Posted June 20, 2019 On 6/16/2019 at 9:11 PM, A miller said: I am also stumped by that but he clearly said that the lugs for the MP and M-A are "totally different" from the M3 (which I would assume extends to the M4 and M2 etc) The lugs for the MP and MA are steel, the lugs for the M3 are chrome plated brass, so yes different. I imagine the concerns Leica had regarding the quality of lugs it had farmed out were to do with a difference in finish to the original even though they may have fitted. Collectors are funny people if the work Leica do isn't to an exact original specification. Lugs of some sort or other will never be unavailable, it just requires the will and market demand to have some made. Using an original as a pattern it would cost $150 to have hundreds made in brass, steel would be a bit more expensive but somebody somewhere will do it if it becomes a crisis and not just a panic. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colint544 Posted June 20, 2019 Share #29 Posted June 20, 2019 Maybe a cheaper, less hard-wearing metal is being used now. I once had the front wheel-bearings replaced on my Volkswagen. Didn't give a thought as to what parts the guy used. But it turned out he fitted non VW bearings, and within less than a year, they were worn-out. I just looked at the strap lugs on my 1966 Leica M2, and they look pretty thin at the edge, like it might be wear. It must be said that Leica really solved the durability issue when they built the M5. That thing has strap-lugs you could hang an anvil from. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share #30 Posted June 20, 2019 4 hours ago, 250swb said: The lugs for the MP and MA are steel, the lugs for the M3 are chrome plated brass, so yes different. I imagine the concerns Leica had regarding the quality of lugs it had farmed out were to do with a difference in finish to the original even though they may have fitted. Collectors are funny people if the work Leica do isn't to an exact original specification. Lugs of some sort or other will never be unavailable, it just requires the will and market demand to have some made. Using an original as a pattern it would cost $150 to have hundreds made in brass, steel would be a bit more expensive but somebody somewhere will do it if it becomes a crisis and not just a panic. I like your optimism, Steve, in the notion that we’ll be able to extend the life of our beautiful German engineered tools with Chinese after market products. 👌🏻 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidshirts Posted June 21, 2019 Share #31 Posted June 21, 2019 On 6/20/2019 at 4:19 AM, A miller said: I like your optimism, Steve, in the notion that we’ll be able to extend the life of our beautiful German engineered tools with Chinese after market products. 👌🏻 It's the world we live in, now. I'm sure if there's enough demand for this some supplier will meet it. The question is, will there be enough demand? I probably should replace the original lugs on my M2 and M3 while I can... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted June 21, 2019 Share #32 Posted June 21, 2019 I believe that there is a degree of huge over reaction to this post, I have several Leicas both LTM and M and none show wear to any degree, some I have been using regularly since the 1970s. However that is the way of forums. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share #33 Posted June 21, 2019 Just now, Matlock said: I believe that there is a degree of huge over reaction to this post, I have several Leicas both LTM and M and none show wear to any degree, some I have been using regularly since the 1970s. However that is the way of forums. My IIIg doesn't show any wear either. Neither does my M7 or my M-A. My M3 was strong as an ox.....until the lug broke off. I think you should continue to "stay calm and carry on" No need for this post to worry you or cause you any angst. Your gear will last forever. 👌 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted June 26, 2019 Share #34 Posted June 26, 2019 A loose strap lug is a far less bothersome issue than a light leak because of a failed lug. I know the Classic M6 was prone to light leaks at the strap lug and have shied away from a used M6 for that reason. I've never heard of it in an MP or MA, but I'm no authority like one of the privateer Leica repair persons or Leica factory are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSG123 Posted September 16, 2019 Share #35 Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) Found this topic on a search after just talking to Youxin Ye about my M4. While the camera operates perfectly, the brass lugs are thin and worn. I don't want to attach a strap to a 53 year old camera with lugs in that condition. Ye said the replacement lugs were third party and were problematic. He told me he had some black paint (chrome?) lugs if I didn't mind switching but some years ago, I'd bought a Kameraleder half case which has the strap attached to the case. While it works fine, it adds bulk to the camera. However, as I don't need a CLA in any event, I'll stick with using the half case. Edited September 16, 2019 by CSGreene Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kl@usW. Posted January 6, 2020 Share #36 Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) Am 16.6.2019 um 20:20 schrieb A miller: Me a scaremonger?? 🤨 I am just a guys who lost his lugs and had a butch of a time getting them re-installed. I am happy for anyone with actual useable insights on this topic to chime in and set all of our nerves at ease. Until then, perhaps we will all be a little on edge and treating our old Ms with a bit more tender loving care... Adam, just stumbled upon this thread. What I learned after checking my three M´s; all three of them used with the same strap and the same eyelet ( see picture ) M 7 ; heavily used for 10 years, bought as new: No sign of problem with the lugs M-P ( 240); got as exchange for corrosion M 9, frequently used for 3 years: as above, no problem with the lugs M 2, bought 3 years ago in mint condition, used only for hiking and outdoors --in my holidays: One of the lugs shows heavy erosion, the other considerable erosion. Lugs of M 7 and M-P are made of stainless steel, lugs of M 2 are made of brass. Diagnosis: no problems with the steel lugs of the recent stuff, but heavy erosion of the brass lugs used with steel eyelets. Therapy: Steel eyelets should be avoided with the M2´s. The combination of the brass with the steel eyelet is disastrous . When Leica started to fit steel instead of the brass lugs escapes my knowledge, but my guess is the M 3 has brass too. Possibly your problem of loosing the lugs is related to the softer material of the older M´s. Don´t know what actually happened to your lugs, but if it was possible to refit new lugs, the bore diameter must have been intact--thus the lugs were the problem. Furthermore I think that eyelets too narrow will put too much torque on the lug while moving around-so possibly a cord is the better solution. See pics for explanation. K. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M2 with worn lugs after 3 years with steel eyelets of the shown strap.The strap is sold by the LFI-Shop and otherwise very nice. My solution for the brass lug. Edited January 6, 2020 by Kl@usW. 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M2 with worn lugs after 3 years with steel eyelets of the shown strap.The strap is sold by the LFI-Shop and otherwise very nice. My solution for the brass lug. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/298351-strap-lugs-just-sayin/?do=findComment&comment=3886433'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share #37 Posted January 8, 2020 On 1/6/2020 at 4:50 PM, Kl@usW. said: Adam, just stumbled upon this thread. What I learned after checking my three M´s; all three of them used with the same strap and the same eyelet ( see picture ) M 7 ; heavily used for 10 years, bought as new: No sign of problem with the lugs M-P ( 240); got as exchange for corrosion M 9, frequently used for 3 years: as above, no problem with the lugs M 2, bought 3 years ago in mint condition, used only for hiking and outdoors --in my holidays: One of the lugs shows heavy erosion, the other considerable erosion. Lugs of M 7 and M-P are made of stainless steel, lugs of M 2 are made of brass. Diagnosis: no problems with the steel lugs of the recent stuff, but heavy erosion of the brass lugs used with steel eyelets. Therapy: Steel eyelets should be avoided with the M2´s. The combination of the brass with the steel eyelet is disastrous . When Leica started to fit steel instead of the brass lugs escapes my knowledge, but my guess is the M 3 has brass too. Possibly your problem of loosing the lugs is related to the softer material of the older M´s. Don´t know what actually happened to your lugs, but if it was possible to refit new lugs, the bore diameter must have been intact--thus the lugs were the problem. Furthermore I think that eyelets too narrow will put too much torque on the lug while moving around-so possibly a cord is the better solution. See pics for explanation. K. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M2 with worn lugs after 3 years with steel eyelets of the shown strap.The strap is sold by the LFI-Shop and otherwise very nice. My solution for the brass lug. Awesome analysis, Klaus. Many thanks. To be clear, my lug just popped out of the socket. It didn't wear down due to grinding against the steel eyelets. Having said that, your preventative solution is one that is worth doing and I will look into a new strap for my M3 and IIIg. I am at a loss as to why my lug popped out. But I think it may have something to do with some fiddling that Youxin Ye did just a month or so earlier when he supposedly CLA'd it. It was all good until I had it CLA'd 😡 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan2z Posted January 8, 2020 Share #38 Posted January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, A miller said: But I think it may have something to do with some fiddling that Youxin Ye did just a month or so earlier when he supposedly CLA'd it. It was all good until I had it CLA'd 😡 Maybe he thought you wanted a Custom Lug Adjustment 😁 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 8, 2020 Share #39 Posted January 8, 2020 I'm sure someone could have a lug 3D printed if really necessary. Failing that, some gaffer tape over the lug hole and a strap fitted to the baseplate or half case. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2020 Share #40 Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) Strap fitted to the baseplate tends to unscrew from the tripod thread and the camera drops Until this happens, it puts excessive stress on the pin of the camera body on the other side, on which the baseplate‘s vertical extension (with its „eye“) hangs on to. So imo a strap fitted to the baseplate is a real no-no-solution. Edited January 8, 2020 by tri Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now