SL2?

[hoppyman]

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As far as I recall, Leica has used the term proformat since the S2 was new. I think that the actual supplier of the sensors customised for Leica is not public.

The only official hints we have from Leica itself is that the SL2 design will be less “brutal” in form and the sensor resolution with be more than 24MP. I would speculate that the hypothetical S2 will have a sensor with different response and later technology than the SL. I don’t believe that the proformat label is significant in that, but would guess new technology certainly.

My personal opinion as a long time user of the S system and of the SL, is that the S system will be mature with no new developments after the S3 and that the L mount system is their future, including the APSC variants. Certainly the new L Summicrons are technically the best. I will most likely buy the SL2. Right now I can use those new lenses as they become available, starting with the 35. I have the CL too.

[pierovitch]

We have all the limited editions of the SL to go through before a new model release. Lenny could be overworked! 

[Bob Andersson]

Well, I now have as much of a pre-order registered with my local Hasselblad dealer as is possible - the countdown is now on for the the expected X1D Mk 2 announcement on Wednesday - https://www.hasselblad.com/ and recent Twitter/Instagram posts refer.

It's a shame as I would at least have liked to know what Leica had planned for the SL update but their continued and deafening silence on the matter since that infamous LuLu interview has finally persuaded me that I need to hedge my bets given the likely waiting list for the new Hassy and that its lens line-up suits me slightly better. Of course Leica doesn't have to arrange its announcement schedule to suit my convenience but I wonder if I'm the only potential Leica customer who will be tempted by whatever Hasselblad delights us with on Wednesday?

Of course I may be unimpressed or suffer from price shock and end up back at square one! 🤣

[frame-it]

On 6/9/2019 at 3:27 AM, Chaemono said:

+1. That’s what I thought initially and if it refers to the MF sensor dimensions 30x45 strictly, then it’s pointless to hope that the sensor brand can be adapted for the SL. The way they state it “with its innovative Leica ProFormat sensor” makes it a bit ambiguous, though. From a marketing perspective it wouldn’t be impossible to promote the use a FF ‘ProFormat’ sensor if the same enhanced color response as in the S3 is emphasized. The aspect ratio would be 3:2 in FF as well, so ProFormat. 😁

would the s007 sensor actually fit into the SL body ?

[Chaemono]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb frame-it:

would the s007 sensor actually fit into the SL body ?

The L-Mount is too small for MF. 

[BernardC]

20 hours ago, Bob Andersson said:

I wonder if I'm the only potential Leica customer who will be tempted by whatever Hasselblad delights us with on Wednesday?

There's already a 123 page thread on the X1D in this forum, so you aren't the only one. That being noted, I find it almost inconceivable that people hesitate between two cameras that are so different. One is ultra-rugged and lightning fast. The other is a slow and deliberate jewel.

Perhaps some photographers really do need both kinds of cameras, but they can only justify owning one. Or perhaps there is something else that unites them in the minds of photographers, other than the obvious (price, status).

[BernardC]

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6 hours ago, Chaemono said:

The L-Mount is too small for MF. 

I would love to see an L-mount camera with a 36x36mm sensor that lets you shoot vertical or horizontal or square!

[Bob Andersson]

3 hours ago, BernardC said:

I find it almost inconceivable that people hesitate between two cameras that are so different. One is ultra-rugged and lightning fast. The other is a slow and deliberate jewel.

But both are associated with some of the finest glass. 🤩  If one doesn't need "lightning fast"...

[Chaemono]

I had rented the X1D with the 45 and the 90. I found the XCD lenses a bit soft wide open, plus one gets those freakin octagonal bokeh balls. In the link are some test shots vs. the M10 with the Summicrons: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/i-Qxw7zjd. I didn't buy it and lost the rental fee. I found it slow and I could focus faster with the M10. And the Summicrons stopped down a bit were stunning.

I'll rent the X1D Mk 2 with a couple of lenses eventually and compare it to the SL2, whenever that comes out, with the SL Summicrons, so some of the finest lenses vs. some of the finest lenses wide open. 😁 Of course, stopped down the XCD lenses are excellent, as are most lenses.

[saxo]

If Leica will not only present a redesigned Panasonic camera with marginal technical improvements, they have three chances to get my money:

1) The new SL2 is much lighter and smaller, a good partner for M-lenses

2) A high res. model, which doubles current resolution (about 100Mpx) and enables me to get a light an excellent APO 180-560mm out of the current APO 90-280 by cropping. The lens would be good enough, I'm sure.

3) A model with 2(!) stops better dynamic range than current SL

Everything else is not of interest to me. In case Leica will present a Q2 sensor in a SL2 body, which is very likely, I will wait for the SL3 as nothing urges me, I'm still happy with the SL1

[Chaemono]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb saxo:

In case Leica will present a Q2 sensor in a SL2 body, which is very likely, I will wait for the SL3 as nothing urges me, I'm still happy with the SL1

+1

vor 22 Minuten schrieb saxo:

3) A model with 2(!) stops better dynamic range than current SL

+1

vor 23 Minuten schrieb saxo:

1) The new SL2 is much lighter and smaller, a good partner for M-lenses

Now you’re pushing it. It ain’t gonna happen because a smaller SL won’t be able to house IBIS 😉

[bags27]

7 hours ago, Chaemono said:

+1

+1

Now you’re pushing it. It ain’t gonna happen because a smaller SL won’t be able to house IBIS 😉

How come Nikon Z or Sony Ar7iii, which are microscopic compared to the SL or Panasonic S1R, can have IBIS?

[Chaemono]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb bags27:

How come Nikon Z or Sony Ar7iii, which are microscopic compared to the SL or Panasonic S1R, can have IBIS?

Sony is really good at building tiny tech and cramping it into tiny bodies. But joking aside, Panasonic has the best FF IBIS of the three and it’s a huge body. Technologically it’s possible, obviously, but the issue seems to be that the heat the processor generates for IBIS to work degrades the image quality. Leica people have said so and Panasonic went with a large, bulky mirror-less FF systems. I’d say there is some truth to that. Is the heat effect discernible in the Z and the α7R III images? Maybe it is. Sometimes there are some funny things going on even though the α7R III sensor is great. Perhaps Sony uses some clever algorithms to mask it. 

[BernardC]

6 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Is the heat effect discernible in the Z and the α7R III images? Maybe it is.

Sony cameras are known for the "disappearing galaxy" effect; they made some image processing choices that are different to Leica's. It would be unfortunate if that was the only option available to photographers (short of actively-cooled astronomical cameras).

That's a long way of saying that I hope Leica doesn't add IBIS to their cameras if it compromises image quality. They already offer IS on lenses that can benefit.

[Chaemono]

There’s no evidence that galaxies are disappearing with Sony mirror-less at exposures less than 3.2”. Still, I’m convinced that Sony cooks their RAWs, just like Panasonic for the FF LUMIXs and Nikon for Zs. The Nikon files, for example, come out looking like someone has cranked up the Clarity slider in LR all the way to 100. It’s insane. 😁

[Torontoamateur]

More , More More !!! I must have More Pixels !!!

[Tailwagger]

Given, per LR, the layoff announcement of 12.5% of the German workforce and the statements made about a 'second digital revolution in the camera business', I, for one, don't have a very good feeling about the future of independent Leica camera body designs outside the M. Presumably the SL2 is fully engineered and in place, but there's a very faint whiff of Hasselblad Lunar in the air. 

[Chaemono]

Blackstone has been trying to sell their 45 percent stake. An IPO is under consideration. The ‘restructuring’ is to ensure profitability or rather enhance it to maximize the price IMO. Below three translated excerpts from an article in a German business newspaper three days ago I linked.

‘Leica is a remarkable success story," says Harsch. In 2008, sales amounted to 100 million euros, and today it is more than 400 million. "Now, however, Leica faces challenges similar to the advent of digital cameras." According to Harsch, the future lies in optimizing the images through algorithms called computational imaging.’

‘The restructuring is also supported by shareholder Blackstone, he said [no sh!t]. The US investor has held about 45 per cent of Leica since 2012 and has actually wanted to sell since 2017. Head of Supervisory Board Kaufmann also did not rule out an IPO, again.’

‘Milan Huhn of IG Metall [the largest German Union] understands that Leica is realigning as the market changes: "We fear, however, that jobs will be eliminated under the guise of digitization in order to maximize profits." A job reduction of this amount is incomprehensible, because Leica is working profitably. Profits in the 2018 financial year were between €30 million and €40 million.’

https://app.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/mittelstand/matthias-harsch-so-will-der-leica-chef-den-firmenumbau-meistern-/24461078.html

The margin seems ok, almost double digits. They likely want to ensure at least 10%. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Chaemono

[bags27]

The new Hassy X1D II is going to be a formidable competitor.

Edited June 19, 2019 by bags27

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Jeff S]

And priced at US $5750.

Jeff