SL vs S1 vs S1R - DxOMark results

[Bob Andersson]

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DxOMark have now published their S1R results. You can see the raw data comparing the SL, the S1 and the S1R here.

I like to head to the Measurements tab, then click on Dynamic Range and then select Screen - for some the default Print option may be of more interest of course. As expected there's a price to pay for those extra pixels in the S1R. The picture looks similar for Tonal Range and Color Sensitivity. I suppose I should be impressed that the S1R effectively matches the SL metrics on a per pixel basis while having a lot more of them but unless you really need the extra resolution... 🤔

Edited May 7, 2019 by Bob Andersson
Removing a whoopsie!

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[Vieri]

35 minutes ago, Bob Andersson said:

DxOMark have now published their S1R results. You can see the raw data comparing the SL, the S1 and the S1R here.

I like to head to the Measurements tab, then click on Dynamic Range and then select Screen - for some the default Print option may be of more interest of course. As expected there's a price to pay for those extra pixels in the S1R. The picture looks similar for Tonal Range and Color Sensitivity. I suppose I should be impressed that the S1R effectively matches the SL metrics on a per pixel basis while having a lot more of them but unless you really need the extra resolution... 🤔

Thank you for the link, Bob It seems that Panasonic did a very very good job, besting the already very good SL in all categories. To be expected, given the evolution in sensor technology, and boding very well for a new SL2 which, probably, will sport the same sensor of the S1R.

Best regards,

Vieri

[Jeff S]

Or the Q2.

Jeff

[Chaemono]

I’d say you’re both wrong. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I hope they're both right....

Gordon

[jaapv]

Let's wait for real-life results from Photons to Photos.

 

[su25]

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16 hours ago, Bob Andersson said:

DxOMark have now published their S1R results. You can see the raw data comparing the SL, the S1 and the S1R here.

I like to head to the Measurements tab, then click on Dynamic Range and then select Screen - for some the default Print option may be of more interest of course. As expected there's a price to pay for those extra pixels in the S1R. The picture looks similar for Tonal Range and Color Sensitivity. I suppose I should be impressed that the S1R effectively matches the SL metrics on a per pixel basis while having a lot more of them but unless you really need the extra resolution... 🤔

I am indeed surprised that S1R has lower Dynamic Range of 14.1 EV (ranked 23), for a camera (or its pixel density), use of which is supposedly for landscapes and portraits (ranked 2). Also, low-light ISO performance (ranked 5) is much better than expected due its pixel density. 

[helged]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

Let's wait for real-life results from Photons to Photos.

 

Results seems to be available on Photons to Photos. Dynamic range is, as an example, very similar to Nikon D850, but below Hassey X1D. 

[thighslapper]

5 hours ago, helged said:

Results seems to be available on Photons to Photos. Dynamic range is, as an example, very similar to Nikon D850, but below Hassey X1D. 

When you get results from DXO and Photons to Photos that appear to be quite at variance it does make you wonder at the validity of these measurements ..... let alone whether a difference of a 6% in DR is of any practical significance (if DXO are correct). Sensor performance for all these high end FF mirrorless/DSLR cameras looks sufficiently similar to me that you can discount it entirely as a means of choosing between them. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by thighslapper

[Bob Andersson]

The Photons to Photos Photographic Dynamic Range Chart seems to use the same sort of pixel binning that the Print option in equivalent the DxOMark chart does but the DxOMark chart does use measured ISO rather than the ISO set on the "dial". The shapes of the two charts are similar until around ISO 800 and then they diverge with, according to DxOMark, the S1 enjoying a clear 1 stop advantage over the S1R even when pixel binning (which reduces shot noise somewhat and so lowers the noise floor) at those higher ISOs. On a per pixel basis (Screen option in DxOMark) the S1 has a clear 1 stop advantage over the S1R at and near Base ISO. Comparing 24 MP with 24 MP the difference in performance between the current SL sensor and the S1 sensor is pretty startling!

Pixel peeping aside I'd happily buy an SL2 if it used either of those two "Lumix" sensors but I still hope that Leica finds an even better option. Well, one can dream. 🙂

[dkCambridgeshire]

28 minutes ago, Bob Andersson said:

The Photons to Photos Photographic Dynamic Range Chart seems to use the same sort of pixel binning that the Print option in equivalent the DxOMark chart does but the DxOMark chart does use measured ISO rather than the ISO set on the "dial". The shapes of the two charts are similar until around ISO 800 and then they diverge with, according to DxOMark, the S1 enjoying a clear 1 stop advantage over the S1R even when pixel binning (which reduces shot noise somewhat and so lowers the noise floor) at those higher ISOs. On a per pixel basis (Screen option in DxOMark) the S1 has a clear 1 stop advantage over the S1R at and near Base ISO. Comparing 24 MP with 24 MP the difference in performance between the current SL sensor and the S1 sensor is pretty startling!

Pixel peeping aside I'd happily buy an SL2 if it used either of those two "Lumix" sensors but I still hope that Leica finds an even better option. Well, one can dream. 🙂

… likely that Leica has already found the better option … and it's probably being used by the regular testers right now. 

dunk 

Edited May 8, 2019 by dkCambridgeshire
typo

[Chaemono]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb dkCambridgeshire:

… likely that Leica has already found the better Option.

dunk 

+1

vor 32 Minuten schrieb Bob Andersson:

Pixel peeping aside I'd happily buy an SL2 if it used either of those two "Lumix" sensors...

For 3X to 4X the price? Me, not really. It's the same mount now and Panasonic has the best IBIS. It's either better SL2 sensor or 'discontinued.'

[helged]

4 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

For 3X to 4X the price? Me, not really. It's the same mount now and Panasonic has the best IBIS. It's either better SL2 sensor or 'discontinued.'

But couldn't the SL2 inherit the S1/S1R IBIS? (just wondering ...). 

Edited May 8, 2019 by helged

[dkCambridgeshire]

7 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

+1

For 3X to 4X the price? Me, not really. It's the same mount now and Panasonic has the best IBIS. It's either better SL2 sensor or 'discontinued.'

Maybe not such a great price differential if the same SL 601 body and controls used ? Leica are fond of reusing the same chassis for their Mk II models. 

dunk 

[Chaemono]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb dkCambridgeshire:

Maybe not such a great price differential if the same SL 601 body and controls used ? Leica are fond of reusing the same chassis for their Mk II models. 

dunk 

Good point, but I was factoring in price erosion of the Lumix bodies by year end. 😁

vor 9 Minuten schrieb helged:

But couldn't the SL2 inherit the S1/S1R IBIS? (just wondering ...). 

I didn’t mean to imply that it won’t. I just don’t know. That’s my hope, too, SL2 comes with Panasonic’s IBIS.

[Bob Andersson]

55 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

For 3X to 4X the price? Me, not really. It's the same mount now and Panasonic has the best IBIS. It's either better SL2 sensor or 'discontinued.'

Probably not as at that price point the Hassy X series would be a strong contender! 😀

Unfortunately I seem to be in that minority who finds the contoured grip of the S1/S1R makes it a lot less comfortable to hold than the SL. If it were otherwise I'd already be an S1 owner.

[sillbeers15]

Best of both world to own both S1R and SL2. I still do not know if SL2 will come with in body stabilisation but I do know that the LUMIX body allow more 3rd party flash comparability than SL2.

I have a feeling that the performance of the S1R and SL2 will be very close due to similar spec sensor and clone Contrast Detect AF.  The user interface of the SL2 should stay close to SL1, which is wonderful thing. Flash compatibility on SL2 should still suck.

Edited May 8, 2019 by sillbeers15

[RoySmith]

As the SL and Q used a similar sensor I wondered how the SL and Q2 compared.

I checked the Dynamic Range SL601 vs Q2 at Photons To Photos and found it surprisingly similar.

I guess doubling the MP while maintaining the dynamic range is an accomplishment. 

Interestingly, the Q2's dynamic range  did not measure the 14 stops as was announced with the release of the Q2.

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[BernardC]

1 hour ago, sillbeers15 said:

I have a feeling that the performance of the S1R and SL2 will be very close due to similar spec sensor and clone Contrast Detect AF.  The user interface of the SL2 should stay close to SL1, which is wonderful thing. Flash compatibility on SL2 should still suck.

So we can put you down for "same body and features as the SL, different sensor"? That's what they did with the S3, but I wouldn't be surprised if the next SL had a few innovations.

One thing I find intriguing is that the battery grip price has been slashed. That tells me that it will not be compatible with the new camera, or that the next battery grip will offer additional features. I would love a grip that makes the SL into a self-contained cinema camera: 15mm rod connections (for holding a matte box and follow-focus), XLR audio connectors, D-Tap battery cable connector, USB-C to record RAW video straight to an SSD.

[BernardC]

2 minutes ago, RoySmith said:

Interestingly, the Q2's dynamic range  did not measure the 14 stops as was announced with the release of the Q2.

There is no ISO standard procedure for measuring sensor dynamic range. Each manufacturer has their own method, and third-party sites have different methods too.