s1 vs s1r vs SL

[tom0511]

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vor 7 Stunden schrieb FlashGordonPhotography:

Well, I've had my camera for two days. I'm very pleased. Spectacular EVF. Lovely shutter sound and you can turn off LENR. It also seems all my SL lenses focus faster with this processor. The level of detail with the SL lenses is epic.

This week I'll do some tests against my Z7, A7R3 and X1D. Things look good so far. 

Gordon

I am interested about your conclusions. I must say that even though I really like the size of the Nikon Z and the f 1.8 lenses I did change my mind and will probably stay with SL Leica/Pana (allready own many SL lenses and even though its all on the heavy side I really am used to the look).

In a moment of GAS I added a S1r+24-105  2 days ago. Even though my first impression some days before I wanst too impressed by the body size, I now feel more compfortable with it. Specially with the bigger lenses and handles quite well. Its loaded with functions but I like that most buttons are clearly labled - and most buttons are in an intuitive position.

The AF seems really more advanced than that of the SL, and I agree the shutter is nice damped. There is one small thing: I find the wheels could be a little stiffer.

My first impression about the IQ is that color and tonality  is "nice" and pretty "neutral" what I do like.

 

[caissa]

The improvement in low light capability and AF is not big enough for me to switch from SL to S1, this is not so important for me. Only the better resolution and high res option of the S1R could be a reason to switch. IBIS is also important. But currently it is only a nice to have feeling and not a real need to upgrade to S1R.
So I think it is better to wait a little for the price to settle down and maybe get a comparative glimpse of the SL2 (and its price). I wonder what will be the turnover time for  Panasonic cameras (as fast as Sony or as slow as Leica). If Panasonic is like Sony, then maybe next year there is already the next generation available ?

The only thing that is now really clear for me: Switching to a different mount system (Sony, Nikon Z, Canon R, GFX, X1D) would now be really silly. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by caissa

[Chaemono]

Am 15.4.2019 um 19:47 schrieb caissa:

The improvement in low light capability and AF is not big enough for me to switch from SL to S1,...

This is not what Panasonic claims. For action, fast movement in a scene the improvement in AF and ISO performance better be there. I don’t buy the argument that the S1R is made to be used like the X1D, for still objects and for landscape work, just with worse DR, but heck one can use bracketing. These cameras are supposed to have fast tracking of objects and users will want to try them in situations where there is rapid movement in a scene. In some of the promo videos that you link, the reviewers use them for action. There was one photographer who checked the AF tracking with horse riding and decided to dump his Nikon gear and buy the S1, S1R and all the Lumix S lenses to go along with them. He claimed the cameras’ AF tracked really well and there wasn’t a single shot not in focus. Maybe you’re not watching the videos you link.

To be versatile enough to handle these ‘action’ scenes, the S1 and the S1R for that matter, have to have at least acceptable medium ISO performance. The S1 will be put to the test this weekend. I will shoot some action which requires a shutter speed of at least 1/2500 sec. in order to avoid motion blur. The camera will, therefore, have to be put in S mode. I’m planing to use only the 75 SL and the 90 SL. Aperture will be used for depth of field. S mode inevitably leaves Auto ISO to ensure proper exposure then. And depending on the light, ISO may have to go up to 6400, I would guess. Let’s see how the Panasonics perform. Otherwise they are just niche cameras, the S1R sort of like a pseudo-medium format body that can take SL lenses (which are better than the XCD lenses BTW). I’ll post the pictures in the image thread. 

[caissa]

I’m just saying that for me the difference is too small and so not important enough to switch. (AF speed is not too important for me.) I’m not saying that it is too small in absolute terms ( or not existing ).

The SL is very nice for me, and I will not lightheartedly replace it - even if there are (for other users) good reasons to do it. If I wanted to replace it, then only the S1R with the higher resolution could be a reason to pay again so much money. (For better res, maybe yes, only for better AF and DR, probably not). I’m not interested in “action”.

Maybe I simply wait for the next generation. (I don’t know what is Panasonics typical time between generations.Like Sony ?) I have already the 5Ds (50 MP). So I add a new camera only if it gives me something that I miss. (E.g. IBIS and high res)

[FlashGordonPhotography]

7 hours ago, Chaemono said:

This is not what Panasonic claims. For action, fast movement in a scene the improvement in AF and ISO performance better be there. I don’t buy the argument that the S1R is made to be used like the X1D, for still objects and for landscape work, just with worse DR, but heck one can use bracketing. These cameras are supposed to have fast tracking of objects and users will want to try them in situations where there is rapid movement in a scene. In some of the promo videos that you link, the reviewers use them for action. There was one photographer who checked the AF tracking with horse riding and decided to dump his Nikon gear and buy the S1, S1R and all the Lumix S lenses to go along with them. He claimed the cameras’ AF tracked really well and there wasn’t a single shot not in focus. Maybe you’re not watching the videos you link.

To be versatile enough to handle these ‘action’ scenes, the S1 and the S1R for that matter, have to have at least acceptable medium ISO performance. The S1 will be put to the test this weekend. I will shoot some action which requires a shutter speed of at least 1/2500 sec. in order to avoid motion blur. The camera will, therefore, have to be put in S mode. I’m planing to use only the 75 SL and the 90 SL. Aperture will be used for depth of field. S mode inevitably leaves Auto ISO to ensure proper exposure then. And depending on the light, ISO may have to go up to 6400, I would guess. Let’s see how the Panasonics perform. Otherwise they are just niche cameras, the S1R sort of like a pseudo-medium format body that can take SL lenses (which are better than the XCD lenses BTW). I’ll post the pictures in the image thread. 

I haven't tested the CAF thoroughly yet, however I can already say that it's better than the SL and not as good as the uncomfortable A9. SAF is much better, especially in low light. This is with the SL lenses. I have no purchased a Panasonic lens yet. From my very limited testing in SAF the 50mm SL now feels slightly faster than the Sony 50mm 1.4 on the A7R3. The S1R is VASTLY faster than the X1D. There's simply no comparison. I'm not sure I agree on the SL lenses being better than the X1D ones. The X1D 80mm is astonishing. It would be impossible to pick a preference over the SL 75mm, it's closest equivalent. The XCD 21, 30, 65, 120 and 135 are also excellent performers. The hexagonal highlights are occasionally distracting but not there in most shooting or when wide open.The continuing absence of zooms is holding the X1D back though. For ultimate IQ I would still be picking up my X1D over any 35mm system. The lenses are a part of that.

I think you'll be pleased with the S1. It's shown to have virtually identical sensor IQ to its peers and the SL lenses will lift it a little. It has the best handling, EVF and balance of the 24MP full frame cameras. As long as the weight is not a distraction and the AF fits your needs I think you'll like this camera.

Gordon

[tom0511]

Gordon,

I agree with you in many points. If fast AF is not needed and primes are used I would give the edge in IQ to either the S or x1d (or probably any other MF). For zoom, fast AF, flexibility I would rather use the SL or S1(r), and here I would give the s1r the edge because the AF seems faster and has many useful features. For example I do like that in face detection AF you still can move a focus point around as a starting point.

I have used the s1r now several times a day during our vacation and I get much better along with the body and user interface than I initially thought.