My Take on the APO-Summicron SL 35mm Asph

[PeterGA]

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Jono- thanks for another wonderful 'introduction' to what looks like a great lens. As always you provide some shot examples that do justice to the glass - not an easy feat by any means.

For my purposes - the 35 is too close in focal length to the 50lux which I absolutely adore and with near 50MP coming I don't want to 'crowd' the focal lengths of my lens choice too closely. I can see a prime wide(r) cron along with 50lux  and 90- as my finished kit - the quality of the zooms has set a high benchmark for Leica to meet in primes . Both 24-90 an 90-280 are the best I've ever owned and used from any manufacturer - the 50MP(ish)  SL2 will finally deliver enough resolution to do justice to the glass.

Pete

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[panoreserve]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb PeterGA:

Jono- thanks for another wonderful 'introduction' to what looks like a great lens. As always you provide some shot examples that do justice to the glass - not an easy feat by any means.

For my purposes - the 35 is too close in focal length to the 50lux which I absolutely adore and with near 50MP coming I don't want to 'crowd' the focal lengths of my lens choice too closely. I can see a prime wide(r) cron along with 50lux  and 90- as my finished kit - the quality of the zooms has set a high benchmark for Leica to meet in primes . Both 24-90 an 90-280 are the best I've ever owned and used from any manufacturer - the 50MP(ish)  SL2 will finally deliver enough resolution to do justice to the glass.

Pete

I also own and use both Varios a lot. You are right - the IQ of Leica‘s SL-Zooms is outstanding, on a par with the best R- and M-primes!

BUT: those new SL-Summicrons are even better in terms of clarity and micro contrast.That‘s sounds unimaginable, though the difference is clearly visible. So, regarding the absolute IQ, the ranking is:

M-and R-primes (very good and even outstanding, esp. 50AA or WA-Elmars 21/24).

SL-Varios as well as SL 50 SLX (simply excellent).

SL-Apo-Summicrons (well...unearthly IQ; future-proof for the next 3or 4 sensor generations...at the least😇)

 

[Chaemono]

Those modern Leica lenses are special. The SL Summicrons render at f/2 a bit like the 50 Summilux-SL, not in terms of background blur but in the way of the roll-off immediately after the focus point. I wonder if the 16-35 renders at f/4.5 like an f/2 lens. Then the 35SL is superfluous. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

I had wondered about how shots of restaurant food preparations would come out when shot with the 35 SL-SC wide open (or near to that), since Jono's article started out with three such shots using the 75 SL-SC.  But in his gallery of attached shots, there is a picture of some really scary split rabbit-heads (or something heads, it's not that pleasant to analyze) that answers my question.  Was that wide open or about f/4.?  From eyes to ears are all sharp.

[jonoslack]

1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I had wondered about how shots of restaurant food preparations would come out when shot with the 35 SL-SC wide open (or near to that), since Jono's article started out with three such shots using the 75 SL-SC.  But in his gallery of attached shots, there is a picture of some really scary split rabbit-heads (or something heads, it's not that pleasant to analyze) that answers my question.  Was that wide open or about f/4.?  From eyes to ears are all sharp.

Hi Scott

You should be able to see the exif information in the gallery shots by pressing the info (i) button - I’d be grateful if you could have a check (it works for me, but that might just be because it’s me!).

Best

Jono

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

I hadn't noticed those buttons, but they work.  I can see EXIF and a little map of the location when the shot was outside or in a market, and download a full res copy of the jpeg (not 100% quality, maybe 90% or about 3-4 MB per picture.  And only a few of your pictures were taken any way but wide open.  There are some landscapes and dogs @f/5.6, the fish on a plate @f/2.8 and some scary things hanging in a market (how do I know?  the GPS info keeps moving down a street) also @f/2.8.  People?  @f/2.0 and a few times f/2.2.

Here's a question that can also be looked at with the other SL-SCs.  Does the rapid falloff in contrast between the in focus plane and the out of focus planes in front or in back happen only at f/2.0 or at most of the widest apertures?  How does it seem to you?

Edited March 2, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

[jonoslack]

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5 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Here's a question that can also be looked at with the other SL-SCs.  Does the rapid falloff in contrast between the in focus plane and the out of focus planes in front or in back happen only at f/2.0 or at most of the widest apertures?  How does it seem to you?

HI Scott - it isn't limited to f2 - of course it's less obvious as you stop down, a but the lens behaves the same way at every aperture. . . . I intentionally shot mostly at f2, because there really didn't seem to be a downside!

[MarkinVan]

Hey Jonathan:

Thanks for the great article and all the examples.

In the wonderful b&w portrait of the lady (C1010992.DNG), physically, how close were you to her when taking that picture.

I am thinking of the 35 SL prime as the perfect all round lens for my SL so I  have the camera with me more often.

I have the 3 SL zooms but they are I believe quite a bit heavier and larger and feel the 35 prime, though covered by the 16-35 and 24-90 would be used far more frequently due to size & weight and not intimidate people as much.

Looks like it takes pretty good portraits.

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[jrp]

Jono, thanks for the review.

At this level, it is a question of priorities / relativities.  So

(a) are you going to buy this lens for yourself?

(b) would it be better to get the 16-35mm + a Panasonic SL body with image stabilisation (for versatility), or (b) get this lens with an SL body (for those shots where the background simply must be blurred out), or (c) get an SL Sigma Art lens of comparable focal length, with an extra stop?

Looking at the ergonomics, I can see why Leica tried to make the Summicrons indistiguishable physically, but this does seem a bit hefty for a 35mm f2.

[jonoslack]

13 hours ago, MarkinVan said:

Hey Jonathan:

Thanks for the great article and all the examples.

In the wonderful b&w portrait of the lady (C1010992.DNG), physically, how close were you to her when taking that picture.

I am thinking of the 35 SL prime as the perfect all round lens for my SL so I  have the camera with me more often.

I have the 3 SL zooms but they are I believe quite a bit heavier and larger and feel the 35 prime, though covered by the 16-35 and 24-90 would be used far more frequently due to size & weight and not intimidate people as much.

Looks like it takes pretty good portraits.

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

Hi There 

Thank you!

I was across a table in a bar - maybe 5 ft? It is cropped a little. 

The 35 certainly makes the camera more carryable (handles very nicely). Yes - it is good for portraits.

Best

Jono

[jonoslack]

12 hours ago, jrp said:

Jono, thanks for the review.

At this level, it is a question of priorities / relativities.  So

(a) are you going to buy this lens for yourself?

(b) would it be better to get the 16-35mm + a Panasonic SL body with image stabilisation (for versatility), or (b) get this lens with an SL body (for those shots where the background simply must be blurred out), or (c) get an SL Sigma Art lens of comparable focal length, with an extra stop?

Looking at the ergonomics, I can see why Leica tried to make the Summicrons indistiguishable physically, but this does seem a bit hefty for a 35mm f2.

Tricky Questions!

a) I’m not going to buy it at the moment, basically because I can’t afford it! Also because 35mm isn’t really my favorite focal length, the 75 mm on the other hand I bought and love. If I could afford it, then I would certainly buy one, but probably use it principally on the CL rather than the SL.

Worth bearing in mind that if I bought everything I tested I’d have been bankrupt years ago!

b) I do have the 16-35, certainly I’ve never found a need for image stabilisation with it, personally I’d rather use it with an SL body (maybe a 2nd hand SL body wouldn’t cost so much more than an S1? ) as for b) it’s great with the SL body as you can see, but if I was going to have one lens it would be one of the two zooms. C) never tried one of the Art lenses so I can’t comment, I must say I never once thought I needed an extra stop using the f2 on the SL. 

Looking at the lens design, I don’t think there’s much space in there, so I doubt they could have made the lens much smaller and kept the quality - it balances nicely on the SL (and actually it’s good on the CL as well).

All the best

Jono

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jonoslack:

Tricky Questions!

...I do have the 16-35, certainly I’ve never found a need for image stabilisation with it, personally I’d rather use it with an SL body...

+1. I wonder what you think the chances are that Leica will offer two versions of the SL2, one with 47 MPx and one with 24 MPx.

[scott kirkpatrick]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

+1. I wonder what you think the chances are that Leica will offer two versions of the SL2, one with 47 MPx and one with 24 MPx.

How about this path -- first we see the Uber SL2 with its 47 MPx (using the same pixel dimensions and perhaps the identical Si patterns, just more of them, as are already in use in the CL).  Then in a year, the SL-P with the same 24 MPx as the SL today (and we can argue forever whether the image characteristics have changed) and electronic upgrades like faster and more powerful processor, bigger buffers, more powerful video codecs, all the stuff that doesn't quite work out on today's platform.  I might be happy to wait for that one.

Total speculation, of course...

And then, finally, in 2023 the 100 MPx SL3 variant that Peter Karbe is already planning for.

Edited March 3, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

[jonoslack]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

+1. I wonder what you think the chances are that Leica will offer two versions of the SL2, one with 47 MPx and one with 24 MPx.

Hi There

it would seem a big ask for Leica to be bringing out two new camera variants at one time, but maybe Scott has it?

At any rate I would expect the high resolution camera first off - after all, there isn't much objection to using the SL as a back up/lower resolution variant, it still seems to me to work really well. 

best

[saxo]

I'm pleased to read that the APO 2/35 SL is for sale in near future, but why is it so heavy, even heavier than the Sigma ART 1,4/35mm or am I wrong?

Edited March 3, 2019 by saxo

[Chaemono]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb saxo:

I'm pleased to read that the APO 2/35 SL is for sale in near future, but why is it so heavy, even heavier than the Sigma ART 1,4/35mm or am I wrong?

Sigma Art 50/1.4 815 g, Zeiss Otus 55/1.4 for Canon EF 1030 g, 50 Summilux-SL 1065 g. The SL lens weighs 250 g more than the Sigma lens and 35 g more than the Zeiss lens. Sigma Art 35/1.4 665 g, 35 Summicron-SL 720 g. The SL lens weighs 55 g more. It's a Summicron not a Summilux, of course, but its performance is likely better. BTW, I have tons of pictures on the 50s mentioned that show the difference in performance if you insist. 🤣

[relms]

I purchased the 24-90 zoom lens at the time I bought the SL, and without a doubt, it is an incredible lens - the best zoom I have ever used. Afterwards, I purchased the Summicron 75 and 90 primes upon release, and since then I seldom use the zoom.  After becoming accustomed to the smaller size and weight of the primes, I am spoiled.  So much so that I have placed an order for the 35.  When I want to go wider, I use a variety of adapted M lenses.  All of which attest to the beauty, the utility, and the versatility of the SL.

[thighslapper]

5 hours ago, relms said:

I purchased the 24-90 zoom lens at the time I bought the SL, and without a doubt, it is an incredible lens - the best zoom I have ever used. Afterwards, I purchased the Summicron 75 and 90 primes upon release, and since then I seldom use the zoom.  After becoming accustomed to the smaller size and weight of the primes, I am spoiled.  So much so that I have placed an order for the 35.  When I want to go wider, I use a variety of adapted M lenses.  All of which attest to the beauty, the utility, and the versatility of the SL.

Therein lies the paradox ....... when the SL system had hardly any lenses we all moaned and groaned about the lack of choice ..... and now as the system is expanding we will all start grumbling about the various pros and cons of each as we now have a choice and can't carry everything .... As it is now, every time I go out I sit looking at a heap of lenses and can't decide what combination to take ....... as I know that the one I leave behind is the one I will need for that 'once in a lifetime' image that appears unexpectedly. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by thighslapper

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[jonoslack]

1 hour ago, thighslapper said:

Therein lies the paradox ....... when the SL system had hardly any lenses we all moaned and groaned about the lack of choice ..... and now as the system is expanding we will all start grumbling about the various pros and cons of each as we now have a choice and can't carry everything .... As it is now, every time I go out I sit looking at a heap of lenses and can't decide what combination to take ....... as I know that the one I leave behind is the one I will need for that 'once in a lifetime' image that appears unexpectedly. 

Haha - same problem here - exactly. BUT let's face it, the 24-90 really covers most of those 'once in a lifetime' situations, and although the primes are lovely (my 75 is the most used) those situations aren't usually dependent on an extra  couple of stops. . . .

[Agent M10]

2 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Haha - same problem here - exactly. BUT let's face it, the 24-90 really covers most of those 'once in a lifetime' situations, and although the primes are lovely (my 75 is the most used) those situations aren't usually dependent on an extra  couple of stops. . . .

True, but sometimes  those "once in a lifetime situations" are missed because I left the camera in the bag, in the car, or even at home due to the added weight of the lens. I'd use the M exclusively, but the SL primes appear to be worth the extra effort.