100 MPs for the SL? no problem! Interesting Interview with lens designer Peter Karbe [merged]

[Chaemono]

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You seem intent on distorting facts. 

[AndreaP75]

I’m particularly interested to know more about the “white spots in the portfolio” Peter Karbe refers to.

There’re no Summilux lenses planned for the moment and we won’t see anything from Leica before 2021 at best (if ever announced at some point next year). Of course, adapting M will be always a possibility .

With the native Sigma Art series in native L-mount around the corner, it’ll be interesting to see how many users will go that way to fill the gap.

They may not be able to resolve 100mpx, but definitely capable for the next generation of sensor, covering a time frame of 3 to 4 years.

 

[LocalHero1953]

1 minute ago, Chaemono said:

You seem intent on distorting facts. 

I'm out of this discussion - no need for it. I blocked you once before when you flooded the forum with test shots. It would be a pity to do the same again because of your attitude.

[Chaemono]

😪

[MarkinVan]

http://www.overgaard.dk/Leica-Camera-Typ-601-Leica-SL-Small-Camera-Large-Print-and-Large-Lenses.html

[bags27]

Fantastic interview. So much richness in it. Thanks!

This is the first (and not the only!) thing I found really fascinating and, in its own way, comforting:

Stephan Schulz (Product manager Leica S and Leica SL): "We at Leica are similarly surprised when Panasonic brings a new product, like Panasonic Lumix DC -S1R with 47MP, because we don't know it before. This is what we cannot discuss with those partners. We are an alliance (with Sigma and Panasonic), but we are competitors also, so that means we are not allowed to exchange any data about target markets, target size, upcoming products, and so on."

Edited February 25, 2019 by bags27

[Chuck Albertson]

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If Thorsten is now out from under a (hypothetical) NDA and free to publish his interview with Peter Karbe as a result, I hope that means that Leica are finally releasing the 35 and 50 Summicron SL lenses.

[Bob Andersson]

FYI this conversation started yesterday in the thread

"100 MPx for the SL? No problem!"

[evikne]

Maybe a moderator should merge these threads?

[simon_hsn]

Very interesting first hand thoughts from a person who is actually responsible for the development. I see why Leica (and other manufacturers) are going into that direction (larger lenses), it makes sense from a technical perspective. But I, personally, would prefer if they would focus more on compact size vs ultimate performance for the SL lenses.

Why? This would have the bigger impact on photography as a humanity. People taking out their gear more instead of capturing 100 MP photos with too heavy gear.

Leica would say “just buy a Leica CL” if you want smaller. BUT: at the at of the day it is ALWAYS about the balance of PERFORMANCE  (the larger the sensor the better, the faster the lenses the better) vs  HANDLING (do I take my gear and use it or is it overdesigned?). For me, the SL system went overboard with the initial lens offerings in that respect, because the lenses are too big for what they offer (eg 90-280 mm; or compare a Sony/Zeiss 55 f1.8 vs the SL 50 Lux: off course the Leica lens is better in every respect, but does it really matter as much as the size and weight difference suggest?). I am therefore looking forward to the new summicron series, although I am worried they are too big (700g for a 50 f2!? I may rather carry a Nikon Z6 wih their 50 f1.8 instead).

When is performance enough in tech in general? I think we are already at that point in videography: more than 4k is only useful for large cinema screens and capturing for better post processing abilities. For viewing photos at their typical viewing distance, 18 MP is roughly anough, also for large billboards;)

I am wondering. Will we ever take the gear discussions out of the equation when we talk about photography in the future? No more „What camera did you use?“ and instead „Where and when did you take that photo and what do you want to express with it?“

[scott kirkpatrick]

I use one of the best (but earliest) of the S lenses, the 120 Macro, and one of the latest and best of the SL lenses, a 75 SL-SC.  Both are optically pretty awesome, both sharp and clear.  I expect both will be able to handle 3 micron pixels.  If a Leica with IBIS chooses to go to superresolution by moving the pixels around and combining to get some even higher effective number (I hope not), remember that the pixels remain the same dimension, and the superresolution is a trick of signal processing.  However, the advances in AF speed and silence in the SL Summicron as compared to the S Macro shows why S lens development is quiet right now.  The dual motors, and more advanced firmware on the latest SL lenses leave my S Macro in the dust.

Incidentally, I am waiting anxiously for the 50 SL-SC to arrive.  I'll also use it on my CL as an even more portable 75-eff mm lens.

Edited February 25, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

[Jeff S]

4 hours ago, Bob Andersson said:

FYI this conversation started yesterday in the thread

"100 MPx for the SL? No problem!"

It was linked in several threads and forum sections, including the S forum.  

Not really possible to merge all, given the wide range of topics covered in the interview.

Jeff

Edited February 25, 2019 by Jeff S

[scott kirkpatrick]

I started one, changed to this one as the tone got a little intense and off-topic.

[thighslapper]

10 hours ago, simon_hsn said:

I am wondering. Will we ever take the gear discussions out of the equation when we talk about photography in the future? No more „What camera did you use?“ and instead „Where and when did you take that photo and what do you want to express with it?“

I think you will find most 'seasoned' photographers do both. 

Of course real men down the pub talk about gear and not soppy emotional things like the deep inner meaning of their photographic compositions ....... 

 

[Belle123]

The most interesting part of this article is the heat issue and explaining why Leica stuck with SLR for medium format.

[AlanJW]

On 2/24/2019 at 9:21 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

Leica has rarely been technologically superior to other cameras, if by that you mean in technical features. And if the SL2 went down the route of button splatter and complex interfaces, then I would be one of those bailing out - or at least not buying. And we are talking about uniqueness of interface in all Leica bodies, including the SL - it's one of the reasons I use Leicas..

I'm sure we will get more pixels - I'd be surprised if it was less than 47mp - even if I don't want them. I hope it will have IBIS - as long as it not bigger - because I can see that the new Summicrons really benefit from it. A recent afternoon doing headshots, switching between the Apo-Summicron SL 90 and the VE 90-280 at its short end, showed me how much I have relied on OIS to get me a sharp image, even though the Summicron, when sharp, gives a better image.

The simplicity of working with a Leica has kept me in the fold too.  Love the term "button splatter" as it is very apt.

Re more pixels, I want more, minimum of 47 -- for a different reason.  I have found myself frequently using CL lenses on the SL as I prefer how the SL handles. The CL lenses are tiny compared to the SL lenses and the quality is excellent (Peter Karbe said so and I agree after trying).  48 mp would be 20 mp for APS/C size files generated by the SL.   For casual work, this is plenty.   For more serious work, I would tend to use M lenses on the SL, as the size and weight of SL lenses is a problem for me because of cranky back and shoulders.   That is very personal of course, but it is nice to be able to stick those small CL AF lenses on the more robust SL body.

[sillbeers15]

In the interview, it is also clear that SL2 will not have in body Stabilization.

If the AF tracking is not as good as the S1R, I Guess I would rather buy that over SL2 to go with my 4 SL lenses to get the best of both. And using M lenses other than my M10 is of no priority for me.

[Chaemono]

Confirmation bias. Those who can control it make more money in the stock market. 😀

[robgo2]

On 2/24/2019 at 1:24 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

Interesting that Leica were surprised by the introduction of the Panasonic S1! All those who think the SL2 will be a S1/S1R in a new body: take note.

Other takeaways:

- SL2 will have more than 24Mp: disappointing for those, like me, that would prefer the status quo, but not surprising. Karbe: "Do you need 60MP? I don't think so. But probably we'll get it anyways". My point exactly!

- As you say, Scott, sounds like IBIS is a real interest; no aversion in principle (as seems to be the case for LENR). I'd lay a bit of cautious money that the SL2 will have it.

I am with you on not wanting or needing more megapixels. I rarely print larger than 13x19 inches, for which 24MP is beyond sufficient, even with some cropping. People have gotten so jaded that they do not appreciate how much resolution there is in 24MP. Now, I would not mind having IBIS, which makes the Panny S1 intriguing. As it is, I am doing quite well with my SL and a nice collection of Leica M and R lenses, so in all likelihood, I will remain pat and save some money.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[hoppyman]

My interpretation of Peter  Karbe’s 100mp remark was that the lens designs were capable of resolving images to that level, not that an SL2 was coming with a 100mp sensor. Not to say that an SL2 would not have more than 24mp though.

He made a similar  remark much earlier that the S lenses were already capable of resolving the next generation of sensors ( higher than 37mp) too. Presumably we will see that proved whenever the S3 gets to market with its 64mp sensor.

I found that whole interview very interesting and informative especially the insights into likely future paths for both S & L. Those really firm up my personal plans too.