Leica M-A problem

[Paul Robinson]

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4 hours ago, earleygallery said:

I have another suggestion to avoid a lengthy wait for your camera if you return it to Leica and they decide it’s not a fault. Can you visit a Leica store and ask to run a film through their demo M-A, using your own lens. See if there’s any difference. 

You’re comparing 2 examples of the M-A with an M7 which might have some slightly different design in some parts of the mechanism. It could be the batch of M-A bodies Red Dot have are all faulty which is highly unlikely but trying another one from another source should answer the question. 

Hi earlygallery,

In a differant way I have already approached the same idea to see if other M-A have the same problem. Red Dot Cameras have confirmed to me that none of the batch of M-As they ordered and brought in at the same time (12 cameras) have this problem. 

When comparing my M7 with the M-As. I can conclude that the spacings with the M7 are consistently even and the spacings are of a larger width compared to the M-As. I can live with the narrower spacings with the M-A if only they were consistent in the cameras I have tried. I would be a happy man if the M-As had provided the same even spacings (albeit narrower than seen with the M7).

Thanks,

Paul

[Paul Robinson]

4 hours ago, jcraf said:

Funnily enough yesterday, whilst helping out as I regularly do, in a friend's London Leica dealership (one which might have been mentioned in this very thread), a gentleman brought in his M-A for commision sale because he was no longer using it.  This camera had been a replacement from Wetzlar because of irregular frame spacing on his original M-A. That original camera had been bought from a Leica dealer situated some distance from London, who had arranged the replacement directly via Leica.  It seems that Wetzlar agreed there was an issue and it was a no quibble replacement.

So oddly enough, seemingly not an isolated issue in the M-A. 

Hi jcraf,

I would be very interested in this camera, both as to buy as a second M-A and to corroborate my problems in purchasing a new M-A.

Maybe there is a way you can privately message me (not sure how to do it) so I can get in touch with the dealer. I have a feeling it will be my Leica dealer of choice?

Please contact me,

Paul

[Paul Robinson]

21 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

Buy a nice M4 instead and have it fully overhauled?

maybe Leitz should be forced to do a product recall, like cars or other products that turn out to have a fault regularly found.

personally I would hate to have one with very tight spacing as I print my negatives “Cartier Bresson “ style with the margins showing and I need a decent space between negatives.

Hello Pyrogallol,

Would like an M4 too, and compare it to the M-A when I have the opportunity to regularly use it.

And yes, I want spacings with the same regular width and where I can easily cut without being tightly close to the adjoining frames.

Paul

[semi-ambivalent]

On 3/3/2019 at 3:37 AM, Paul Robinson said:

Can anyone with an M-A and M7 let me know if the spacings on the negative are the same or different with these two cameras using the same lens. 

With thanks,

Paul

Paul,

I can not do that but I can say a roll of film I developed today, which was shot using only a 50mm and a 28mm, had narrower spacing between frames in a block of frames shot with a 28mm, than those in a block of frames shot with the 50mm.  I chalk this up to angle of incidence. I have an MP but have been using the M-A exclusively recently and I don't mark the camera used on the sleeves so I'm no help there.

HTH

[105012]

Not sure if this is useful, but one of my M3's has absolutely consistent spacing between frames, whereas the other varies occasionally (maybe 10% of frames), though the variation is always towards larger gaps than the norm for that camera. Possibly it is a setup issue from servicing? (One of my M3's serviced by Takahashi, the other by Kanto).

My routine is to insert the film and spool, ensure sprocket teeth are aligned with film sprocket holes by touch, then close up and advance to 0. I never tension the film (used to do that back in the day, but did not restart that habit when I returned to film...).

[Kevin Parratt]

My M-A, purchased from the Leica Shop at Leitz Park Wetzlar, in 2018, has now in 2021 still had only one film through it. Everything on that film is out of focus. I did NOT think that I should have to test the rangefinder in a factory-new M Leica.

I didn't see the horrifuing result until I was on the other side of the planet where I had the film processed. I had used the new Summarit f2.4/75 mm and thre Summicrons, 35, 50 and 90 mm, all at full aperture. These same lenses performed beautifully on the other M bodies, 2, 3 and M7.

The rangefinder on the M-A is out of whack. Ok .. people tell me it's an easy fix. But if this something we must do ourselves upon purchase, then the price should be dropped 1000 €. 

No I don't want to send it or give to some repair shop out their somewhere. 👎

I was planning a trip to Germany in 2020 so I was just going to hand it back personally and get them to fix it or replace it. But March 2020, I was stranded in the Philippines and have been here since, unable to return to my studio in Thailand.

I will get to Germany, hopefully by next year, and trust they will do the right thing. But I have for now lost all interest in buying anything else from them.

Quality control? .. disappointing.

I hope you all stay safe, cheers,

Kevin Parratt

 

[jaapv]

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Sheesh. This is the simplest adjustment possible for a halfway-competent technician or even DIY.  Is there no Leica Store in your vicinity? And buy a camera for one film in three years? 
 

https://us.leica-camera.com/Stores-Dealers/Leica-Stores-Worldwide/Leica-Store-Bangkok

https://us.leica-camera.com/Stores-Dealers/Leica-Stores-Worldwide/Leica-Store-Manila

 

 

[Matlock]

"And buy a camera for one film in three years?"

 
 I think this says it all and probably explains the number of complaints about  M-A/MPs that seem to crop up, usually from people who are never heard of again. The focus on my M-A is perfect and I know of no one who has had problems with their new (or in this case not quite so new) Leicas. I only see these problems on this forum. 

[frame-it]

3 hours ago, Kevin Parratt said:

I was stranded in the Philippines and have been here since,

Lower Ground Floor, Greenbelt 5, Ayala Center, Makati City, 1224 Metro Manila

Tel: +632 7729 5567 | +63 916 738 1098
Email: leicastorephilippines@lucerneluxe.com

[Kevin Parratt]

4 hours ago, Matlock said:

"And buy a camera for one film in three years?"

 
 I think this says it all and probably explains the number of complaints about  M-A/MPs that seem to crop up, usually from people who are never heard of again. The focus on my M-A is perfect and I know of no one who has had problems with their new (or in this case not quite so new) Leicas. I only see these problems on this forum. 

You know of no one??

Now you know of me. Is your comment intended as a put down?

Yes, for one and a half of those three years, the M-A sits in Thailand while I am denied access to it by being stuck here. Please read before shooting from the hip.I paud full price for a new Leica. I refuse to pay a penny more for something that should have thoroughly checked before packing. A factory trained tech will do it for free, or not all. There is no excuse for this lapse in quality control. Period.

[logan2z]

10 hours ago, Kevin Parratt said:

My M-A, purchased from the Leica Shop at Leitz Park Wetzlar, in 2018, has now in 2021 still had only one film through it. Everything on that film is out of focus. I did NOT think that I should have to test the rangefinder in a factory-new M Leica.

I didn't see the horrifuing result until I was on the other side of the planet where I had the film processed. I had used the new Summarit f2.4/75 mm and thre Summicrons, 35, 50 and 90 mm, all at full aperture. These same lenses performed beautifully on the other M bodies, 2, 3 and M7.

The rangefinder on the M-A is out of whack. Ok .. people tell me it's an easy fix. But if this something we must do ourselves upon purchase, then the price should be dropped 1000 €. 

No I don't want to send it or give to some repair shop out their somewhere. 👎

I was planning a trip to Germany in 2020 so I was just going to hand it back personally and get them to fix it or replace it. But March 2020, I was stranded in the Philippines and have been here since, unable to return to my studio in Thailand.

I will get to Germany, hopefully by next year, and trust they will do the right thing. But I have for now lost all interest in buying anything else from them.

Quality control? .. disappointing.

I hope you all stay safe, cheers,

Kevin Parratt

 

Sh*t happens, mistakes get made, I don't think I'd write off Leica just yet.

It's unfortunate that you were unable to determine that there was a fault with your M-A before the warranty expired.  Have you contacted the dealer you purchased from, the local dealer in the Phillipines (contact info was posted above), or Leica Wetzlar directly?  Maybe under the circumstances, Leica will make the small adjustment for free.

[Helge]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Kevin Parratt:

You know of no one??

Now you know of me. Is your comment intended as a put down?

Yes, for one and a half of those three years, the M-A sits in Thailand while I am denied access to it by being stuck here. Please read before shooting from the hip.I paud full price for a new Leica. I refuse to pay a penny more for something that should have thoroughly checked before packing. A factory trained tech will do it for free, or not all. There is no excuse for this lapse in quality control. Period.

I do understand your frustration, however you made from my point of view numerous mistakes on your own.

It is impossible to produce any product without any failure. So, it makes sense to test the new purchase immediately. I would never purchase something of that value and not test it right away completely. It would have been not this complicated to at least do some “dry” test of the rangefinder by just focusing on several distances from .7 m up to infinity and check for plausible results.

And even if this would be a little far out at you or if this check might not have discovered the issue, at least after you got the 1st film back after a couple of weeks (latest), you should have contacted customer service in Wetzlar directly and align on a way to get it fixed as soon as possible.

It is completely not understandable that you didn’t send it in immediately after the discovery a couple of weeks after purchase???

Now after 3 years I would fully understand Leica if they won’t accept a warranty claim this late.

Btw, I purchased an MP a couple of months ago. The first thing I did was getting a slide film exposed in a couple of days and get it developed immediately after (which means nowadays in Germany you have to wait about 2 weeks) - just to be sure that everything works perfectly (what it does).

My clear recommendation would be now to directly contact CS in Wetzlar asap, being polite and trying to achieve a good compromise.

[earleygallery]

11 hours ago, Kevin Parratt said:

My M-A, purchased from the Leica Shop at Leitz Park Wetzlar, in 2018, has now in 2021 still had only one film through it. Everything on that film is out of focus. I did NOT think that I should have to test the rangefinder in a factory-new M Leica.

I didn't see the horrifuing result until I was on the other side of the planet where I had the film processed. I had used the new Summarit f2.4/75 mm and thre Summicrons, 35, 50 and 90 mm, all at full aperture. These same lenses performed beautifully on the other M bodies, 2, 3 and M7.

The rangefinder on the M-A is out of whack. Ok .. people tell me it's an easy fix. But if this something we must do ourselves upon purchase, then the price should be dropped 1000 €. 

No I don't want to send it or give to some repair shop out their somewhere. 👎

I was planning a trip to Germany in 2020 so I was just going to hand it back personally and get them to fix it or replace it. But March 2020, I was stranded in the Philippines and have been here since, unable to return to my studio in Thailand.

I will get to Germany, hopefully by next year, and trust they will do the right thing. But I have for now lost all interest in buying anything else from them.

Quality control? .. disappointing.

I hope you all stay safe, cheers,

Kevin Parratt

 

Hold on, you haven't just had the film processed, you've known about the issue since at least early in 2020? Have you bothered to speak to the dealer you bought it from?

The rangefinder can be knocked out of alignment if the camera is dropped or knocked. If you are travelling about it's quite possible that it's happened, possible!

I see someone has posted you a link to your nearest dealer - see if they can realign it for you. Not sure what else you'll do, chuck it in a bin?

[Matlock]

12 hours ago, Kevin Parratt said:

You know of no one??

Now you know of me. Is your comment intended as a put down?

Yes, for one and a half of those three years, the M-A sits in Thailand while I am denied access to it by being stuck here. Please read before shooting from the hip.I paud full price for a new Leica. I refuse to pay a penny more for something that should have thoroughly checked before packing. A factory trained tech will do it for free, or not all. There is no excuse for this lapse in quality control. Period.

I am sorry that you were denied access to your camera for one and a half years but what about the other 18 months? I still know of no one with troubles other than on this forum which is not really representative of the real world. Having said that I sincerely hope that you are soon in possession of one of the finest cameras available. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Matlock

[ianman]

On 7/28/2021 at 1:19 PM, jaapv said:

And buy a camera for one film in three years? 

I thought that at first but he doesn't say when it was processed. It could have been 3 days after buying the camera and seeing that there is a problem didn't put another roll through it. Unlikely but possible, so it's not a good idea to assume when we don't know. I would have put another film in right away just to make sure... and been on to Leica in a flash.

[jaapv]

On 7/28/2021 at 8:10 PM, Kevin Parratt said:

You know of no one??

Now you know of me. Is your comment intended as a put down?

Yes, for one and a half of those three years, the M-A sits in Thailand while I am denied access to it by being stuck here. Please read before shooting from the hip.I paud full price for a new Leica. I refuse to pay a penny more for something that should have thoroughly checked before packing. A factory trained tech will do it for free, or not all. There is no excuse for this lapse in quality control. Period.

The problem, however, is that a camera that is  three years old is not new any more.
Anyway, as this is not a manufacturing defect but a maladjustment that can easily have been caused by transport, there is no reason to go into angry mode Just hUnless, of course, you follow the directionsave the thing adjusted by your nearest Leica dealer, addresses have been provided, or can be found on Leica's website. Or just call Leica and thet will provide guidance They may even do it whilst you wait.

Posting on a forum will not get your camera functioning. Unless, of course, you follow the directions that can be found here. It may even be a matter of a two-second twist to the roller wheel. Or a stuck roller wheel arm due to lack of use that only needs to be activated by your finger.

[willeica]

On 7/28/2021 at 11:09 AM, Kevin Parratt said:

My M-A, purchased from the Leica Shop at Leitz Park Wetzlar, in 2018, has now in 2021 still had only one film through it. Everything on that film is out of focus. I did NOT think that I should have to test the rangefinder in a factory-new M Leica.

I didn't see the horrifuing result until I was on the other side of the planet where I had the film processed. I had used the new Summarit f2.4/75 mm and thre Summicrons, 35, 50 and 90 mm, all at full aperture. These same lenses performed beautifully on the other M bodies, 2, 3 and M7.

The rangefinder on the M-A is out of whack. Ok .. people tell me it's an easy fix. But if this something we must do ourselves upon purchase, then the price should be dropped 1000 €. 

No I don't want to send it or give to some repair shop out their somewhere. 👎

I was planning a trip to Germany in 2020 so I was just going to hand it back personally and get them to fix it or replace it. But March 2020, I was stranded in the Philippines and have been here since, unable to return to my studio in Thailand.

I will get to Germany, hopefully by next year, and trust they will do the right thing. But I have for now lost all interest in buying anything else from them.

Quality control? .. disappointing.

I hope you all stay safe, cheers,

Kevin Parratt

 

The advice you have got here is good. This camera just needs to adjusted. If you cannot or will not do this except by travelling to Wetzlar yourself, it might be worthwhile contacting them in advance. If what you say is correct, it would be a matter of minutes to do the adjustment. I am assuming that there were no other issues with this camera, which, as you say, is virtually unused.

William 

[ianman]

On 7/28/2021 at 1:19 PM, jaapv said:

Sheesh. This is the simplest adjustment possible for a halfway-competent technician or even DIY.  Is there no Leica Store in your vicinity? And buy a camera for one film in three years? 

This may be helpful. Disclaimer: I've never needed to do this so I cannot say if the instructions given here are good or not. Maybe someone else can comment on that.

 

 

[jaapv]

UPS has offices both in Thailand and the Philippines. 🙄. If you   contact Leica they might even send you a collect label.  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Kevin Parratt]

On 7/31/2021 at 5:03 PM, jaapv said:

The problem, however, is that a camera that is  three years old is not new any more.
Anyway, as this is not a manufacturing defect but a maladjustment that can easily have been caused by transport, there is no reason to go into angry mode Just hUnless, of course, you follow the directionsave the thing adjusted by your nearest Leica dealer, addresses have been provided, or can be found on Leica's website. Or just call Leica and thet will provide guidance They may even do it whilst you wait.

Posting on a forum will not get your camera functioning. Unless, of course, you follow the directions that can be found here. It may even be a matter of a two-second twist to the roller wheel. Or a stuck roller wheel arm due to lack of use that only needs to be activated by your finger.

"Caused by Transport" ... 

You mean from the Leitz Park shop counter to just outside the front door, where the first frames were exposed?

If a mechanism is so frail that it can't survive such gentle handling, then something is wrong, wouldn't you agree?

Something wrong with quality control.