Monochrom Prices and Sensors

[dkmoore]

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On 2/6/2020 at 11:43 AM, Kamurah said:

@dkmoore:  Thank you for the perspective!

 

I got what can only be considered as a 'once in a lifetime' deal on this camera.  I bought it from a discount warehouse outlet (they obviously bought a 'pallet' of stuff from a camera store that was going out of business), where they obviously had no idea what the value of a Leica M was.  

I have checked...they are a legit business.  I also checked with Leica to make sure the serial had never been registered (i.e. I wanted to make sure this was not a stolen camera).

This sounds like boasting...and to a degree it is...because this sort of thing just does not happen to me. Ever.  I am still in shock.

I paid, in total, $246.00 USD for this camera.  Yes...the decimal is in the right place.  

I think it would easily fetch several times more than that if I sell it....even without the upgraded sensor.  I guess the real question is, ....if I decide to sell it, do I go ahead and send it in for the CLA and Cert (and risk having to pay for the sensor), or just post it as an unused body that is eligible for Leica warranty?

 

In reality, after cathartically posting and reading all this, I am leaning towards just keeping the body, going ahead with the Cert from Leica, and using it for its intended purpose.  I guess I will find a small used lens (even a cheapo) to start off with and save up for the better glass later on.

My only niggle is that it makes me sweat a little to handle a camera that once sold for 8 thousand dollars (regardless of its current value).  I was a professional photog for several years....and the closest I had to that much invested was in my Hasselblad system....but that was for the WHOLE system.  If I keep this camera, I want to ENJOY it...not worry every time I take it out that it will get bumped, dropped, or stolen.  I am retired now, so my income stream is nowhere near what would be required to purchase top glass for this camera.

Anyway....thank you for the post and the food for thought.  Much appreciated!

 

Simply amazing. How in the world?!?!  Lol. 
 

I thought you were going to say $4k min for a brand new unit. 
 

my recommendation completely changes, ha. 
 

use the dang thing and enjoy the crap out of it. Best $246 you have ever spent. 

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[Kamurah]

31 minutes ago, dkmoore said:

Simply amazing. How in the world?!?!  Lol. 
 

I thought you were going to say $4k min for a brand new unit. 
 

my recommendation completely changes, ha. 
 

use the dang thing and enjoy the crap out of it. Best $246 you have ever spent. 

After careful consideration and the recommendations from here and elsewhere, I believe I am going to do just that!   

I have been driving myself crazy trying to figure out the best way to maximize on this opportunity...but in the end, I think the "best" option is to just enjoy it for what it is....and for what it isn't.

I was initially put off by the somewhat 'flat' output of the sensor, especially compared to both newer Leica's and the offerings from other manufacturers.  My other camera is a DSLR (Nikon D700) and that camera is very forgiving WRT getting a good, malleable file.  After reading up and adjusting my PP workflow accordingly, the test DNG's I have been fooling around with hold together better than other things I was considering.  They DO have a different look, but I think that look will be a great addition to the toolkit.  

As for lenses, right now I am strongly considering a Voigtlander 35mm 1.7 Ultron as my first lens.  Anyone with good / bad things to say about that one?  It seems to hit a sweet spot between build quality, performance, and price for me.

For my own peace of mind, I did go ahead and send the body to Leica for the CLA / certificate / warranty.  They said since they were inspecting it, once complete the sensor would be covered for the next 12 months (their words to me), and if the sensor is already bad, I would have had to cough up the dough to fix it anyway.  If I shoot with it for the next 6 months and hate it (ha!), at least I will then have the remaining warranty as an additional perk for a potential buyer.

Thanks to everyone who responded with all the good advice (even if I may have flown in the face of some....please forgive).  I appreciate that there is a community of Leica-minded (see what I did there?) individuals to bounce ideas off.

 

 

[dkmoore]

1 hour ago, Kamurah said:

After careful consideration and the recommendations from here and elsewhere, I believe I am going to do just that!   

I have been driving myself crazy trying to figure out the best way to maximize on this opportunity...but in the end, I think the "best" option is to just enjoy it for what it is....and for what it isn't.

I was initially put off by the somewhat 'flat' output of the sensor, especially compared to both newer Leica's and the offerings from other manufacturers.  My other camera is a DSLR (Nikon D700) and that camera is very forgiving WRT getting a good, malleable file.  After reading up and adjusting my PP workflow accordingly, the test DNG's I have been fooling around with hold together better than other things I was considering.  They DO have a different look, but I think that look will be a great addition to the toolkit.  

As for lenses, right now I am strongly considering a Voigtlander 35mm 1.7 Ultron as my first lens.  Anyone with good / bad things to say about that one?  It seems to hit a sweet spot between build quality, performance, and price for me.

For my own peace of mind, I did go ahead and send the body to Leica for the CLA / certificate / warranty.  They said since they were inspecting it, once complete the sensor would be covered for the next 12 months (their words to me), and if the sensor is already bad, I would have had to cough up the dough to fix it anyway.  If I shoot with it for the next 6 months and hate it (ha!), at least I will then have the remaining warranty as an additional perk for a potential buyer.

Thanks to everyone who responded with all the good advice (even if I may have flown in the face of some....please forgive).  I appreciate that there is a community of Leica-minded (see what I did there?) individuals to bounce ideas off.

 

 

I probably would have just used it but I don’t think you made a bad choice at all for peace of mind. Congrats and nice find. 
 

most of the voigtlander and Zeiss M lenses are fantastic and reasonably priced. 
 

my recommendation would be the 35 2.8 or 50 2.0 from Zeiss M mount. If you need faster, the 35 2 is solid. Both the first two can be bought in mint condition for $500 or less from reputable sources. 
 

I realize you mentioned Voigtlander and I’ve heard good stuff but just haven’t used them myself. 

[burningheart]

On 2/7/2020 at 1:25 PM, Kamurah said:

I was initially put off by the somewhat 'flat' output of the sensor, especially compared to both newer Leica's and the offerings from other manufacturers.  My other camera is a DSLR (Nikon D700) and that camera is very forgiving WRT getting a good, malleable file.  After reading up and adjusting my PP workflow accordingly, the test DNG's I have been fooling around with hold together better than other things I was considering.  They DO have a different look, but I think that look will be a great addition to the toolkit.  

Congrats on your find. That is a common comment regarding the Leica Monochrom (flat output). I never shot rangefinders always slr and dslr. When the MM1 first came out I thought about but as many others looked at the output and the price and was swayed away from it. When I got my first Monochrom I too saw the files flat and boring. Thankfully like you I did some reading and listened to other Rangefinder and Monochrom users and now I enjoy shooting with them. I continue to shoot Dslrs but the Monochrom and the images it can generate has a permanent home in my photography toolkit. 

[Keith (M)]

Yes, the .dng's are 'flat' but also very malleable.  A quick click on the 'auto' button in LR Classic makes an initial improvement which is then easily improved further with judicious use of the sliders.  Need something ready to upload to social media? Set the camera to dng + jpg and the jpg to high contrast - voila!  

[Kamurah]

Thanks, I think I am going to enjoy it too.  I have decided to take a very 'purposeful' approach to shooting with the Monochrom...which is ok....slow and deliberate.  I also am looking through all the samples posted on this forum, and there are tons of excellent images that showcase what this camera can achieve.

After viewing so many Monochrom images, switching to look at a BW converted DSLR image strikes me immediately in the difference in tonality.  Perhaps it is similar to how so many cooks over-salt or spice their foods....but the hyper-sharpened, overly-smooth jpegs from many cameras are starting to look incredibly inorganic in comparison.  The things I like about the IQ of the Monochrom in black and white are pretty much the same things that made me gravitate to the D700 (an even older camera) in color - basically how the camera handles / renders noise and its performance in lower - light situations.

In any case, I am thankful I came here to ask for the community perspective.   I would have sold the body without giving it a chance to wow me.

[Kamurah]

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An update to anyone who may be mildly curious about my situation to date....

 

I just got off the phone with Leica and confirmed with them that my Monochrom did indeed have a corroded sensor, which is being replaced.  So I look at this as still in the realm of positive, since it will be returned with a new sensor, full CLA, Cert Paperwork, and a 12 month warranty - (even though I am paying for it).  Happy Valentines Day!

For the first lens, I have ordered the Voigtlander 35mm 1.7 Ultron in brass / chrome, and will be sure to post pics once the kit is back, up, and running.

 

Thanks to all again for the info / insight!

[Kamurah]

Camera is back from Leica!

Arrived yesterday and here is the first pic I took.  My trusty companion was willing to indulge me.  Shot with the Voigtlander 35mm f1.7 Ultron 

 

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[Gavbo]

What was the price of all the work completed?

[Kamurah]

41 minutes ago, Gavbo said:

What was the price of all the work completed?

$1595.00 USD for Sensor Replacement

$220.00 USD for Certificate / Warranty

$35.00 USD Shipping

 

So overall the camera ends up not as incredible a deal as I had originally thought....but still a pretty good score.  

[Gavbo]

23 hours ago, Kamurah said:

$1595.00 USD for Sensor Replacement

$220.00 USD for Certificate / Warranty

$35.00 USD Shipping

 

So overall the camera ends up not as incredible a deal as I had originally thought....but still a pretty good score.  

Still an incredible story nevertheless! reminds me the time I picked up an M2 for eqv of 85 USD!

BTW, I was able to get Leica (Germany) to proactive replace the sensor on my MM just before the 5 years (CCD warranty) was up, I only mentioned  on the service note: 'Please replace the corroded sensor'. Moral of the story,  what you don't try you don't get.

Out of interest, is that with Leica Germany directly? is the Warranty not included with the Sensor Replacement itself? Perhaps Leica USA is taking a cut of that sum?

 

 

[Kamurah]

So.....the way it was explained to me from Leica US:  I couldn't just send the camera in to have the sensor replaced.  I didn't have a lens for the camera at the time...so I couldn't check to see if the corrosion had occurred.  I was betting on 'yes', but I didn't have proof.  

I see now I could have possibly sent in a note and it might have worked.  As it was, the camera had been sitting for a number of years, so I went ahead with the CLA/cert.  They found the corroded sensor on their own, and quoted me the price for the replacement.

Indeed I think it makes for a neat story for a camera I would otherwise have never owned.