Farewell Leica...

[jonoslack]

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6 minutes ago, frame-it said:

that's great looking forward to your detailed review

Haha - I'd like to say that the reason I can mention it is that I've not been near one! (perhaps it's a myth)!

[Mr.Q]

1 hour ago, ropo54 said:

The first two shots were taken with the Hb X1D and the Leica R 80 1.4. There was little to no vignetting. The 3rd was taken with the Noctilux 0.95 and was cropped approximately 50%.  I thought the X1D files were stunning, but I was put off by the shutter black out times.  I'm thinking of moving away now from the SL to the Fuji GFX system.

You're right, those are some stunning photos!! I may have to look into picking up a 80 Summilux as well 

I also agree that the X1D isn't really a good alternative for adapting lenses, due to the black out times and limitations of the e-shutter. I'm sure they'll take care of both with the X2D and I can't wait because I'm quickly getting addicted to the silent shooting!  Meanwhile though, I'm moving out of the M system. The results from the X1D are too good to pass up.  I've considered the GFX as well, but the 50S is too bulky and I dislike the ergonomics of the 50R which feels like holding a bar of soap. Similar to a M, but worse in practice due to the heavier lenses.

I've experimented with Leica digital for the past 5 years, and what I've decided to keep, the Q and 50 lux, I feel represents the best of what Leica offers today.  The CL and SL were both brilliant cameras , but for operational speed and versatility Japanese cameras can't be beat.  For now, the X-T3 is what satisfies my needs in almost any scenario. For more considered shooting, I've decided to move from the M10 to the X1D.

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, Mr.Q said:

 Similar to a M, but worse in practice due to the heavier lenses.

 

seriously? my GFX50r + 63mm is lighter than the SL with 50mm

[Mr.Q]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

seriously? my GFX50r + 63mm is lighter than the SL with 50mm

I agree, the camera feels good with the 45 and 63, which are 490 and 405 grams, respectively. It seems the 50R was made for those 2 lenses.

I tried the camera with a few other lenses at the Fujifilm Square though, and it felt really unbalanced. 

GF23/4 - 845g
GF110/2 - 1010g
GF120/4 - 980g
GF250/4 - 1435g
GF32-64 - 875g
GF100-200 - 1050g

All these lenses are heavier than the 50R body, and that's where a proper grip would help the balance imo.

[PeterGA]

Posted in another thread - size/weight isn't a consideration between SL and GFXS  - the R probably needs a handgrip as does the Leica CL when I use it with any L lens - no biggie really. If the S2 is around 50 megapixels the GFX goes - when the 100MP version comes out - it goes anyway. The SL and its lenses - will never go.

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[Vieri]

10 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Well, Like Roofus I'm not sure why I've read this whole thread. Maybe as an antidote to the Brexit fiasco in Parliament!

I can completely understand Vieri's choice here. If you're shooting landscape, stopped down, with long exposures, on a tripod . . then the Hassy seems to me to be a no brainer. . . . . If you ain't, then I'm not so sure. Of course, the SL (I love my SL) . . but I've just checked in my library, and my first SL shot was in January 2015 - that's 4 years ago - and it still has the best EVF out there. Leica were truly visionary with the camera. 

Which isn't enough - except we have just had the L mount consortium decision (announced in September). Panasonic might not be to your taste ergonomically, but from almost every other aspect they've nailed it with µ43 and video, there will be suddenly a huge lens library to suit all tastes  . . . and finally there will be an SL2 later on this year, and more than that, Leica are (rather slowly) introducing what might really be the VERY BEST lens line in the SL Summicrons (the 90 and 75 are just tasters of what is to come). 

So - back to Vieri - for his work - of course (and as he says, it's a business decision, not just based on IQ). But for the rest of us who want versatile all-rounders, the SL already provides great results, and with the L-mount consortium, the SL summicrons, and the upcoming SL2 it seems a very strange time to jump ship. 

Hi Jono! Thank you for chiming in - well, my decision has actually been TWO separate decisions in one On the business side, and for reasons I am not going into, I decided it was time to sever my ties from Leica Italy, and on December 20 I resigned from being an Ambassador or, as they call it now, a Certified by Leica photographer. On the equipment side, I simply find that for my work the X1D is the better choice at this point in the respective development of both systems. The X1D has some unique landscape-oriented features that the SL lacks, outputs much cleaner files than the (already very good!) SL files when doing long exposures, and - last but not least for my Fine Art prints - it offers double the resolution than the SL. While it was a no-go for me when announced, due to the lack of ultra-WA options and to the lack of focal plane shutter, now that it has the 21mm (16.5mm FOV equivalent) and the possibility to adapt any lens out there with ES (for me rolling shutter / banding are non-issues at the shutter speed I use the camera), it's simply a no-brainer as you well said  

9 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Haha - I'd like to say that the reason I can mention it is that I've not been near one! (perhaps it's a myth)!

Perhaps it is! Seriously, I don't think it is - as you, if I knew anything I couldn't say (despite resigning, I intend to honour my NDA indefinitely), but given the Pana S1R, I am pretty confident that there will be a SL2 with the same sensor at some point - it would simply make sense.

As you very well put it, if I did any other photography besides Landscape things wouldn't be so clear - I would very likely stay with the SL and wait to see how the L-mount alliance develops, or if I wanted to go MF I would probably go with Fuji. But for my work, here and now, I think that no system offers me a better compromise between features, UI, portability, IQ and landscape-oriented design than the X1D.

Best regards,

Vieri

[Alistairm]

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Lots of people here shoot the SL and the X1D, like me. The SL system has a gorgeous viewfinder, fantastic, versatile and large native lenses and plays nicely with M glass. It is also reliable in bad weather and while not as quick as an SLR in AF terms is perfectly usable for sports and wildlife - afortiori once the Sigma L mount lenses deploy and Panasonnic cameras which are relatively cheap and have modern AF and higher resolution sensors arrive. 

The X1D is small, and indeed much smaller with its native lenses, but is less versatile and will malfunction if exposed to rain. It produces high resolution, deep files capable of very heavy post processing without degradation and with very low noise. It is much more forgiving and malleable in post, but the camera is slower and less reliable In the field, albeit more compact. For me the X1D replaces the M as a fair weather, compact travel companion and landscape tool. The SL system remains the versatile workhorse. 

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Alistairm

[caissa]

A small add on, about adapting R lenses to 33x44.

The APO-Macro Elmarit R 100 mm has an image circle wide enough for 33x44, but not the R 60 mm Macro lens. Also the R 28 mm Shift lens (PC SuperAngulon) is wide enough, but not the ordinary R 28mm. And the 180mm lenses ( e.g. the 3.4) seem to be ok as well.

Edited January 30, 2019 by caissa

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Alistairm said:

 

The X1D is small, and indeed much smaller with its native lenses, but is less versatile and will malfunction if exposed to rain. 

 

I’ve not read about failed weather sealing .  Can you provide your own circumstances, and cite other sources?  I assume you’re discussing use with native lenses.

I suspect Vieri would be alarmed given his subject matter.

Jeff

[Vieri]

2 hours ago, Alistairm said:

[...]. For me the X1D replaces the M as a fair weather, compact travel companion and landscape tool. [...]

 

That's bizarre - I wouldn't ever think of replacing the M with the X1D,  and I would also NEVER consider the M for serious landscape work. That perfectly shows how different requirements are  

14 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I’ve not read about failed weather sealing .  Can you provide your own circumstances, and cite other sources?  I assume you’re discussing use with native lenses.

I suspect Vieri would be alarmed given his subject matter.

Jeff

Hi Jeff, I used the X1D for 2 months every day in any kind of weather, including Cornish seaside with 80 Mph wind, sea-spray, horizontal rain, you name it, and can confirm that no "malfunction" of sorts have happened to my X1D. Either I have been very lucky, or Hasselblad's claim for weather-resistance is indeed well-grounded

Best regards,

Vieri

[Vieri]

1 hour ago, caissa said:

A small add on, about adapting R lenses to 33x44.

The APO-Macro Elmarit R 100 mm has an image circle wide enough for 33x44, but not the R 60 mm Macro lens. Also the R 28 mm Shift lens (PC SuperAngulon) is wide enough, but not the ordinary R 28mm. And the 180mm lenses ( e.g. the 3.4) seem to be ok as well.

Add the 135mm APO-Telyt-M, very minor vignette  Best regards,

Vieri

[Jeff S]

3 minutes ago, Vieri said:

 

Hi Jeff, I used the X1D for 2 months every day in any kind of weather, including Cornish seaside with 80 Mph wind, sea-spray, horizontal rain, you name it, and can confirm that no "malfunction" of sorts have happened to my X1D. Either I have been very lucky, or Hasselblad's claim for weather-resistance is indeed well-grounded

 

That’s consistent with my other readings, and why I’d like to see any contradictory sources.

Jeff

[Alistairm]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I’ve not read about failed weather sealing .  Can you provide your own circumstances, and cite other sources?  I assume you’re discussing use with native lenses.

I suspect Vieri would be alarmed given his subject matter.

Jeff

Jeff

The weather sealing issue was my personal experience shooting in fog and light rain for about 40 minutes using native lenses and normal precautions for looking after camera in rain (eg use lens hood, protect camera from rain when not in use, wipe off all excess moisture after shooting before putting back under jacket, not changing lenses while damp). 

The camera threw error messages and then simply stopped powering up. Fortunately, after removing the battery and heating with a hair dryer it recovered, but there were drips under the SD card door (which had not been opened prior to drying efforts) and the camera had plenty of condensation evaporate out of it. Other X1D users have experienced their cameras throwing faults after use in rain, and some now tape the SD card door area. Extreme care must be taken as the card door is a very common hinge fail point on the X1D. 

They are great cameras but the weather sealing is not on par with the Leica SL (or Nikon’s pro level bodies), so much more care is needed in rain and fog. I am hesitant to use my X1D outside again in anything but the lightest drizzle. So says I anyway, who had the unpleasant experience of being on holidays on the other side of the world and having problems after using it in fog and rain. Naturally your mileage may vary and there are reports of use in inclement weather without issue, but I can only speak from my own experience. I suspect the card door is the issue. Lenses mount very tightly and the battery compartment is well sealed. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Alistairm

[Jeff S]

I searched for SD door issues, and indeed there were reports of weak hinges and/or door cracks, which would seem logical to be problematic if used in rain after breakage as there is no added door sealing that I’m aware of. Ming Thein reported that he thought the part had been redesigned.  He also reported having no issues using the camera with native lenses either in monsoon rains or in severe conditions in Iceland.

I’d be interested to hear of any follow up reports by you or others with a recently built X1D, or a recently serviced SD door (presumably with better part... and any confirmation by Hasselblad in that regard).

I found no other reports of failed weather sealing on the camera with native lenses.

Jeff

Edited January 30, 2019 by Jeff S

[Vieri]

50 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I searched for SD door issues, and indeed there were reports of weak hinges and/or door cracks, which would seem logical to be problematic if used in rain after breakage as there is no added door sealing that I’m aware of. Ming Thein reported that he thought the part had been redesigned.  He also reported having no issues using the camera with native lenses either in monsoon rains or in severe conditions in Iceland.

I’d be interested to hear of any follow up reports by you or others with a recently built X1D, or a recently serviced SD door (presumably with better part... and any confirmation by Hasselblad in that regard).

I found no other reports of failed weather sealing on the camera with native lenses.

Jeff

Perhaps this is why I haven't had any problems - I got my cameras in October 2018 and December 2018  

Best regards,

Vieri

[Fedro]

btw the 90 TE thin also seems to work decently well on the x1d

[verwackelt]

i know, it is a liitle bit OT. But can somebodey explain why Ming Thein cancelled the cooperation with Hasselblad?
Did he had issues with the X1D or were problems with the company the reason?

[scott kirkpatrick]

Quote

He said that the business relationship soured in some way that he didn't care to describe at all, and he had injured himself and didn't want to carry so much gear.  He sold off his H5 full size gear but kept the X1D.  

 

[Jeff S]

30 minutes ago, verwackelt said:

i know, it is a liitle bit OT. But can somebodey explain why Ming Thein cancelled the cooperation with Hasselblad?
Did he had issues with the X1D or were problems with the company the reason?

Ming’s words...

https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/10/03/moving-on/

Jeff

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[scott kirkpatrick]

Looking back at Ming's comments, it seems (as I suspected) that his watch business might provide a better ROI than commercial photography, and he does have small kids, located half a world away from Sweden.  But what I found interesting was that his dissatisfaction with the role of being an outside advisor on design priorities with Hasselblad came not only from the fact that Hasselblad resists doing what he tells them (never a surprise), but more that users complain that he wasn't obtaining what they want to see.  I guess he felt uncomfortable being stuck in the middle.  When we run threads to collect user input for new firmware and camera model features here on the LUF, at least half of the suggestions are unworkable, so I don't know what he was expecting.

Edited January 31, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick