How Unique are the LHSA editions?

[pico]

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20 minutes ago, ELAN said:

I was referring to the 35 FLE hood, which I think is superior to the V2 hoods that fall off all the time.

Are you by any chance auditioning as an advertising copywriter for Leica?

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by pico

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[lexontario]

My APO is starting to brass from installing and removing the lens hood

AS for which summicron I use , the APO is on the mp240 99%

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Am 22.12.2018 um 12:12 schrieb luigi bertolotti:

I agree that a customer who has paid the premium price for an item announced as a, say, 500 pieces limited edition, has any reason to be disappointed when, for manufacturer's decision, it becomes a 1000-1500-2000 pieces edition:  given that this niche market has a certain importance for Leica, if I were them I'd take care that such a decision would be accompnied by some little variant that, not costly for them, can at least "protect the value" of the first batch declared as limited… a small difference in some engraving… even only the position of it… or the paint of some details like the scales… the risk, of course, is that the subsequent batches do not sell easily… making them as rare as the first…

Anyway… is not a new story… if I remeber correctly, the first Summilux 35 Aspherical was announced as limited edition… but then was continued, even if in no great numbers, so that its value today is anyway on the very high side.

Absolutely! An engraving of some sort would do it.

It could have been disappointing for the first buyers of the silver chrome Noctilux 0.95. Though this is the way it goes: prototypes, small initial batch, subsequent editions.

It is all well documented by the serial numbers, so LEICA shouldn’t be blamed for producing successful articles. 

 

Btw: isn‘t it visible in the photo above, that the two versions of the 50mm Summicron APO differ also in terms of their focus throw?

[derleicaman]

We took great care with the LHSA Summicron 50 APO to ensure its limited status. The lens has the LHSA logo discretely engraved on the barrel near the bayonet. The limited serial number of the lens is also engraved on the lens, clearly indicating the lens is limited to 500 examples.

[LeicaM60]

On 12/22/2018 at 10:16 PM, derleicaman said:

Hello Everyone,

Some interesting, but incorrect views being expressed here. I am Bill Rosauer, and I have conceived and guided the past four LHSA Special Editions into production. My first Special done with Leica was the Black Paint M6TTL. Over 1,000 units were made ultimately, with standard .72 and .58 and .85 finders. Tom Abrahamsson pushed for the .85. The black paint took over four years to happen, starting from a position by Leica that "Why would anyone want black paint, our black chrome finish is superior!" Well, Tom and I finally convinced them that black paint and brassing was cool and was highly desirable and in the end it became a regular finish by Leica. We also had to convince Leica to use a brass basis for the top plate, as black paint would not work with the original zinc top plates. We went through many samples of black paint top plate, as the finish had become a lost art in Solms. Ultimately, the job of painting was subbed out to a firm in Austria.

That success led to the next Special, the Hammertone MP. That was available with a special Hammertone Leicavit and a Silver Chrome 35/2 Summicron ASPH which was a brass based lens. It also had the Hammertone lens hood. The Hammertone was limited to 1,000 units. That one took over two years to bring to fruition. I based this camera on the limited run of Hammertone M-D cameras Leica made in the early 60's. I had one pass through my hands years before and was very taken with the Hammertone finish. This was another tough finish to get right.

Next up was the LHSA MP3. My concept was to make a camera as close to the original MP as possible. My thinking was that the original MP was one of the most collectible Leicas ever made, which most people would never be able to acquire and use. I pushed Leica hard on this one, and they came through with everything I asked for. M2 type frame counter, limited frame lines to 35, 50 and 90. Black paint and chrome finish. Dog ear lugs (which were the hardest thing to do for Leica!), the Leicavit and the piece-de-resistance, the 50 Summilux ASPH in the classic style of the original. This was modeled after my own silver chrome 50 Summilux in my collection. I got a lot of push back from Leica on this as the 50 Summilux ASPH was a new lens at the time and they did not want to divert production into a special edition. But, in the end, they relented and the result is a masterpiece IMO. BTW, the name MP3 came after a discussion with Stefan Daniel, when he asked what we should call this camera. My answer was it should be different from MP,  that there was an MP2 produced in limited numbers in the past, so lets use MP3! There were 500 units each of chrome and black paint finish of the camera, lens and Leicavit. This camera and lens were done in record time of about a year. Leica was in dire need of a revenue maker at the time, so the MP3 was given very high priority.

The current LHSA 50 Summicron APO lens took over a year of work to make happen. My original concept also included a camera, but the introduction of the M10 killed that one off. We continued with the lens. Again, the concept of the lens was based on a late production 50/2 Rigid Summicron in my collection. We went through different concepts, including lenses with built-in lens hoods. Here are some renderings submitted to me during the design process. The chrome lens shown is what we finalized on. The two black renderings, showing front and back views were rejected by me. The focus ring was too skinny, as I preferred the wide focus ring of the later lenses. I also rejected the built-in hood as it was not present on the original lens. This took more than one year to get into production. Believe me, it is not an easy process, but it is very rewarding seeing your vision come to fruition. Many thanks to the team at Leica for making this happen! 300 black paint and 200 silver chrome lenses were produced.

After the limited number of each special edition, Leica is free to make other versions and finishes of the LHSA specials. A good example is the 50 Summilux, as that one was done in a number of other versions for other special editions, most recently the black chrome. Ironically, when discussions began on the 50th Anniversary for the LHSA, I was specifically told we could not use the 50 Summilux ASPH! I told the person I was working with that this was quite ironic, as I was the one who conceived this lens!

Stay tuned for future developments!

 

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I know this is old but hopefully @derleicaman still follows these pages. Was wondering if you could share why is it that while the Summilux LHSA is almost identical to the original, the Summicron LHSA looks very different (and much bigger) than the original on which it is based? I was surprised to learn that both LHSA versions actually share the same lens cap size (even though one is e39 and one e43). Thanks! 

[derleicaman]

10 hours ago, LeicaM60 said:

I know this is old but hopefully @derleicaman still follows these pages. Was wondering if you could share why is it that while the Summilux LHSA is almost identical to the original, the Summicron LHSA looks very different (and much bigger) than the original on which it is based? I was surprised to learn that both LHSA versions actually share the same lens cap size (even though one is e39 and one e43). Thanks! 

Actually, both the LHSA 50 Summilux and the 50 APO are larger than the originals. This is the result of using the exterior of the classic lens design on the original, with the internals of the modern ASPH and APO lenses. The path Leica has been taking recently with the Classic Line is very different. Here, they are reproducing the original lenses very closely, with updates to the glass used and coatings, but otherwise true to the original.

[Kiwimac]

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Am I correct in thinking that the later edition 11811 lens is more or less the same thing, less the LHSA logo , black chrome instead of paint and individual edition engraving?

Edited May 14 by Kiwimac

[pedaes]

2 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

more or less the same

The difference between Black Paint and Black Chrome is huge for some and reflected in s/h value.

[Kiwimac]

22 minutes ago, pedaes said:

The difference between Black Paint and Black Chrome is huge for some and reflected in s/h value.

Indeed - there are also fewer LHSA compared to 11811 which was an edition of 700. 
 

However aside from the cosmetics, are they essentially the same lens?

[jakontil]

8 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

Indeed - there are also fewer LHSA compared to 11811 which was an edition of 700. 
 

However aside from the cosmetics, are they essentially the same lens?

They are the same lens

[Kiwimac]

Does the black chrome on 11811, which is brass, have the nickel coating used on black chrome cameras?