How Unique are the LHSA editions?

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I've finally obtained a black APO Summicron 50mm/2.0 LHSA and can't stop enjoying it, it's so different from the "standard" edition (of which I had a titanium version beautifully fitting the M60).  When looking for it, I've learned about the previous LHSA edition, of the Summilux 50mm/1.4.  It seems the most commemorative focal distance.  Literally one of those was available on eBay, nicely brassed.  But then I found the new version, in stock at BH Photo and others, of the Black Chrome version, that looks very much like the LHSA version:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1131770-REG/leica_11688_summilux_m_50mm_f_1_4_asph.html

Some eBay notes for the LHSA Summilux also say something like, "after the first 500 items, they made another 500"...

SO: how similar is the Summilux LHSA to the Black Chrome version?  How likely is the APO Summicron LHSA to be reissued as a generally available version?  The black lacquer is nothing like chrome, but the form factor is quite similar.

[dugby]

Congratulations on getting a masterpiece lens.

 

I have and use an original LHSA 50mm ASPH Summilux-M in silver chrome. As it is a brass based lens, it is 460g

Has that solid German engineering feel of cool metal and that gentle sliding feel (goldilocks friction) when focusing.

Have printed 120cm poster sized images that proudly adorn my audio room. However those from my APO50 are better .

[easy_action]

Hi dugby.  Is your lens 460g including the hood?

I have the black chrome version, and the lens itself (minus hood and caps), is 384g on my Dymo scales.

My lens is also apparently of brass construction, but maybe slightly less brass to account for the difference?

On mine, the front of the filter ring has worn slightly to reveal a light silvering effect.  I wonder if this part is aluminium? (or perhaps just another coating applied to the brass prior to the black chrome finish?)

Anyway, it's curious that there might be a difference between these two 'brass' lenses.

[dugby]

On our accurate kitchen scales  the LHSA 50mm ASPH Summilux-M in silver

lens only is 403g

lens plus original silver metal lens cap is 416g

 

[easy_action]

17 minutes ago, dugby said:

On our accurate kitchen scales  the LHSA 50mm ASPH Summilux-M in silver

lens only is 403g

lens plus original silver metal lens cap is 416g

 

Thanks.  So the difference could perhaps be accounted for by variations between our scales and/or the black paint compared to black chrome finish.

To the OP, I acquired my bc lens recently from a UK dealer after it had been on back order for some time.  If there are still only 500 of these lenses it is strange that I was sold mine, and other dealers are now advertising them so long after they were first made available (2015 I think).

However, as with the LHSA designated 50mm Summilux Asph. lens where no new lenses have been made available since the original release, I suspect the same will apply to the LHSA APO Summicrons.

Whether a slightly less 'limited edition' black chrome version of the LHSA APO Summicron lens appears in the future, who knows?

[wattsy]

As far as I know LHSA editions are not repeated or extended. The Black Chrome Summilux-M ASPH was a Leica "limited edition" and nothing to do with the LHSA. Leica have always been a bit vague about how limited this edition was meant to be and I think it is clear that they have made more of them than the initial batch of 500.

[Leicaiste]

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Yes, it seems the Black Chrome Summilux-M ASPH Leica "limited edition" is not limited anymore. 

[wizard]

vor einer Stunde schrieb wattsy:

The Black Chrome Summilux-M ASPH was a Leica "limited edition" and nothing to do with the LHSA.

Correct, but there was a LHSA edition of exactly that lens some years before, in both chrome and black. I know, as I happen to own one of those chrome Summilux-M ASPH lenses (it is marked "LHSA"). Apparently, Leica decided to produce a second run of those lenses (which likely are not "LHSA" marked).

[Lins-Barroso]

1 hour ago, Leicaiste said:

Yes, it seems the Black Chrome Summilux-M ASPH Leica "limited edition" is not limited anymore. 

YES.

Unfortunately, the  Leica Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Lens (Black Chrome Edition) isn't a limited edition anymore like previous decided by Leica.

I sent a message to them and received this answer: 

Hey, Thanks for your message! Initially we planned a limited edition of 500. But due to very high demand we extended this several times. I hope this information was helpful. Best Regards, Leica Social Media Team

I said, unfortunately, because many customers, including me, bought it because of the appeal of the limited edition status.

[wizard]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb MV Lins-Barroso:

bought it because of the appeal of the limited edition status.

Well, each run was limited to a certain number 😊.

[dugby]

My particular satin chrome (brass) ASPH 50mm Summilux-M  was originally part of the "LHSA MP3 and lens" combination released in 2005.

My warranty booklet has serial numbers of both the MP3 and lens (both being quite different numbers).

The leica link below states "the Summilux-M 1.4/50 ASPH formula introduced in 2004. It bears the LHSA logo and is supplied in black paint or satin chrome finish matching the camera body"

Strangely, the LHSA lens hood is hammertone.

https://www.leica-camera.blog/2012/07/12/carl-merkin-a-brief-history-of-lhsa-special-editions/

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by dugby

[wattsy]

2 hours ago, wizard said:

Correct, but there was a LHSA edition of exactly that lens some years before, in both chrome and black. I know, as I happen to own one of those chrome Summilux-M ASPH lenses (it is marked "LHSA"). Apparently, Leica decided to produce a second run of those lenses (which likely are not "LHSA" marked).

Yes, I know those earlier (2005?) lenses very well which, as you state, are engraved LHSA. I don't know whether the design of that lens (it's physical shape rather than the finish) owed much to the LHSA or whether it was a design that Leica already had (it resembles earlier versions of the non-ASPH Summilux). As such, I've never thought that the black chrome (no longer) limited edition released a few years ago was in any sense producing a "second run" of the LHSA lenses from 2005. To me they are unconnected but I guess it is interesting that they were only sold in black chrome and not either of the finishes sold as part of the strictly limited LHSA edition.

[easy_action]

1 hour ago, MV Lins-Barroso said:

I said, unfortunately, because many customers, including me, bought it because of the appeal of the limited edition status.

Yes, and the price premium over a 'standard' Summilux adds to that impression.

Interesting that Leica don't seem to have officially clarified this point.

[wattsy]

1 hour ago, MV Lins-Barroso said:

I sent a message to them and received this answer: 

Hey, Thanks for your message! Initially we planned a limited edition of 500. But due to very high demand we extended this several times. I hope this information was helpful. Best Regards, Leica Social Media Team

I said, unfortunately, because many customers, including me, bought it because of the appeal of the limited edition status.

I think Leica's decision to make more of these lenses should rightly raise a few eyebrows. I remember the original announcement and release of both this lens (and the black chrome 35 Summicron, which I bought) and I think the impression was given that these lenses were a limited run.Your response from the "Social Media Team" – with it's faux cheery "Hey" – is also very unbecoming of a company like Leica. Not one of their best moments IMO.

Edited December 21, 2018 by wattsy

[wizard]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb wattsy:

To me they are unconnected ...

Well, physically (and optically, of course) those lenses are identical to each other, except for the finish. I may be wrong, but I thought that Leica also produced another run of the (silver) chrome version of that lens. If not, I am all the more happy to own one of those chrome lenses, as it fits my M3 just perfectly (I use the original lens hood of the contemporary Summilux 50 with the new lens, not the one supplied with the LHSA lens).

[mmradman]

If I didnt purchase seven new M lenses over the last seven years (all standard edition) I would exclaim people buying Leica must be mad. Well, it seems buying so called special editions is niche madness. 

[dugby]

50 minutes ago, mmradman said:

If I didnt purchase seven new M lenses over the last seven years (all standard edition) I would exclaim people buying Leica must be mad. Well, it seems buying so called special editions is niche madness. 

The Leica marketing department considers this niche success.

The sales success of such product lines proves their sales strategy is correct.

[mmradman]

1 hour ago, dugby said:

The Leica marketing department considers this niche success.

The sales success of such product lines proves their sales strategy is correct.

I have no doubt it is a success in monetary terms as people seem to keep buying.  

Question here is if you call something limited edition and charge premium for it by making it common edition in the long run (& still charging the premium over the standard product) you are potentially devaluing the brand. If you really want to milk common design at least you can try to make next limited edition a bit different cosmetically from the previous one.

[Exodies]

The second batch have different serial numbers. What more does a collector need?

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[mmradman]

8 minutes ago, Exodies said:

The second batch have different serial numbers. What more does a collector need?

Work of Genius.