Question for Monochrom Users

[Timmyjoe]

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For those of you who were B&W film users, and then purchased a Leica M Monochrom camera, has it changed your usage of B&W film?

Since 1976 I've been shooting 1-3 rolls of B&W film per week. But decades of processing film (and first printing in the darkroom and later scanning to the computer) is starting to get old.

I'm wondering if the Leica M Monochrom has replaced shooting B&W film for you, or does it mainly just supplement shooting B&W film for you?

A Leica M Monochrom would be a big financial commitment for me, but if it could replace my film usage, and streamline my workflow, it might be worth it. But if it's just another digital wonder (like my other digital cameras), then it wouldn't be worth the expense.

So, does the Leica M Monochrom replace shooting B&W film for you?

Thanks.

Best,
-Tim

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[a.noctilux]

Tim,

I use Monochrom CCD since 2015, after hesitating for many years before buying it.

- first I saw the Monochrom as "better way to learn b&w", as with film, I used for decades color slides with my Leica M/R

- I approched b&w film used with Leica LTM and M only about some ten years ago, so I had to learn to master b&w, hence Monochrom

- to make things short, I used less and less b&w film after having Monochrom,

- at the end, to use only the Monochrom and almost zero b&w  film, now

...

- but in my deep thingking, with my kind of photos, results are different with b&w film and b&w sensor so is not the same "possible subjects",

if that matter, from ISO 3200 onward to 10k, Monochrom has no answer on film

even at 400 ISO, I'm pleased that MM1 matches medium format film ( from some carefull use even 4''x5'' format ! )

- much closer to film ( grain, texture, "gray hues", etc. ) with Monochrom than converting from color files from digital M

 

Arnaud, happy user of Monochrom

 

[Timmyjoe]

Thank you Arnaud,

Those are interesting observations and you've given me something to think about. I could not ask for more.

Best,

-Tim

[jaapv]

11 hours ago, Timmyjoe said:

For those of you who were B&W film users, and then purchased a Leica M Monochrom camera, has it changed your usage of B&W film?

Since 1976 I've been shooting 1-3 rolls of B&W film per week. But decades of processing film (and first printing in the darkroom and later scanning to the computer) is starting to get old.

I'm wondering if the Leica M Monochrom has replaced shooting B&W film for you, or does it mainly just supplement shooting B&W film for you?

A Leica M Monochrom would be a big financial commitment for me, but if it could replace my film usage, and streamline my workflow, it might be worth it. But if it's just another digital wonder (like my other digital cameras), then it wouldn't be worth the expense.

So, does the Leica M Monochrom replace shooting B&W film for you?

Thanks.

Best,
-Tim

Replace? Not completely, the results look different and I think trying to get the film look through another medium is kitschy.

But: the results from the Monochrom, especially the CCD version, are beautiful in their own right and aesthetically comparable to film. I think you would not be disappointed. Do hone your postprocessing skills (like you did your darkroom ones in the past) and print on Baryta paper with a printer that has extra B&W ink cartridges. You'll never look back.

[Timmyjoe]

10 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Replace? Not completely, the results look different and I think trying to get the film look through another medium is kitschy.

But: the results from the Monochrom, especially the CCD version, are beautiful in their own right and aesthetically comparable to film. I think you would not be disappointed. Do hone your postprocessing skills (like you did your darkroom ones in the past) and print on Baryta paper with a printer that has extra B&W ink cartridges. You'll never look back.

Thank you Jaap. I've been a big fan of the CCD version and will look for one that I can afford. And I'll look into the Baryta paper. Would be nice to get digital prints that are comparable to the wet prints we used to make in the darkroom.

 

Best,

-Tim

[MarkP]

11 minutes ago, Timmyjoe said:

Thank you Jaap. I've been a big fan of the CCD version and will look for one that I can afford. And I'll look into the Baryta paper. Would be nice to get digital prints that are comparable to the wet prints we used to make in the darkroom.

 

Best,

-Tim

See if a printer in your area has a DeVere system.

I get my digital B&Ws for framing and hanging printed with this system  with my printer in Sydney.

https://blanconegro.com.au/digital-services/

[Timmyjoe]

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That looks interesting Mark. Thank you.

Best,

-Tim

[Jeff S]

24 minutes ago, Timmyjoe said:

Thank you Jaap. I've been a big fan of the CCD version and will look for one that I can afford. And I'll look into the Baryta paper. Would be nice to get digital prints that are comparable to the wet prints we used to make in the darkroom.

 

Best,

-Tim

Call Leica Miami and speak with Josh.  They only sell first version Monochroms that have been to Wetzlar to get a new sensor and service.  I got a mint MM with under 5k actuations last year for about $3500, and prices have apparently come down since then.  

I also shot b/w film from the 70’s, and built 4 darkrooms over that period.  After another relocation in 2009, I decided to go fully digital.  But printing (and matting and framing) remains paramount.  Silver prints aren’t the same as inkjet prints, but both can be superb.... or crap...that’s up to the user.  The most important tools remain between the ears.  

The MM is a great camera, but so are many other cameras these days, including all the color based Leica Ms.  The latter offer more flexibility in PP with use of color channels, while the MM can sometimes require use of color lens filters for similar control.  But, for me, digital PP in general is far more flexible and convenient than the darkroom; I’ll never go back.  Plus, papers and inks today are outstanding.  

Jeff

[Timmyjoe]

Thanks Jeff, had not known about Leica Miami. Thanks for the heads up.

I've had three darkrooms since 1976, but haven't had one since 2005. I'm looking forward to learning how the Monochrom sees light, and hope to get to a point where I'm seeing on paper what I see in my mind.

Best,

-Tim

[AceVentura1986]

I live in Miami. Leica Miami is excellent. They’re very knowledgeable and are genuinely interested in the art and craft of photography. Give them a call. 

[Timmyjoe]

Thanks Ace.

[Jager]

The nice thing about real, actual film cameras is that they don't diminish with the march of time and technology.  I can pick up my M6 and feel the same good vibe I had when I bought it back in 2002.  That's quite a contrast to our perceptions of digital cameras... which inevitably are influenced by improved, latter-day models.  I can't pick up my M9 (or original MM) without being reminded how much better certain aspects of its modern analogue - the M10 - is.

But that's talking about the tool.  And at the end of the day, the tool should recede into the background.  Results are what matter.

Probably the nicest thing I can say about the Monochrom - either the MM original or the M246 - is that when I'm shooting film and come upon a scene or a subject that is particularly appealing... I never fail to wish I had one of my Monochroms with me.  Monochrom files are special in a way that nearly nothing else is.

[Timmyjoe]

Thanks Jeff,

I'm going to go with an MM and see how it goes. Looking forward to it. Not going to be getting rid of the M3 or M4 anytime in the near future though.

Best,

-Tim

[a.noctilux]

Like Jeff, when I use M10 (or M typ 262) for a while then came my Monochrom CCD days, I need some time to be comfortable with MM1.

I need to accept this old digital M techno : long to write to SD card, small buffer for continuous frames (even in "S" single drive mode), resolution of LCD showing almost always "out of focus" pictures (when in reality it's in focus seen on bigger screen), etc.

The good thing is when I see the results produced by the MM1 later, I admit quite easily those "flaws".

Leica Monochrom is (for me) ultimate "monochrom producer".

Tim, I hope you enjoy your future Monochrom.

[Timmyjoe]

Thanks Arnaud,

Well I bit the bullet and found an MM1 that was being sold for "Parts or Not Working" because the sensor had corrosion. Off it went to Leica, and I think I made it under the deadline (Saturday the price for sensor replacement goes up to $1500 plus). I decided I'd rather get an MM1 at a good price and have the sensor replaced under my name, as opposed to buying one at a greater price that someone else had the sensor replaced on already, because with the one year warranty under my name, I think getting it serviced if there are future issues would be more straight forward. Not sure some seller's 1 year sensor replacement warranty would be transferable me as a new owner.

So it will probably be a few months before I have the camera back and can start using it, but that's okay, I've wanted an MM1 since they first came out, but could never afford the $7999 asking price.

Thanks for everyone's input on this, greatly appreciated.

Best,

-Tim

[Jeff S]

My MM1 came directly from Leica Wetzlar  to Leica Miami (who sent it to Germany before sale), and then to me 2 days later.  Backed by Leica and by the dealer, with full paperwork.  Mint camera, fair price, no wait. And if something goes wrong, easy to go back through dealer.  Plus my gear is fully insured for all non warranty issues anyway.

To each his own.

Jeff

[Timmyjoe]

Hey Jeff,

Leica Miami didn't have any MM1 cameras, or I would have considered them. The MM1 cameras that I was able to find on the market were from private sellers. I was referring to purchasing one with replaced sensor from a private seller, not from a Leica shop like Leica Miami.

 

Best,

-Tim

[Jeff S]

39 minutes ago, Timmyjoe said:

Hey Jeff,

Leica Miami didn't have any MM1 cameras, or I would have considered them. The MM1 cameras that I was able to find on the market were from private sellers. I was referring to purchasing one with replaced sensor from a private seller, not from a Leica shop like Leica Miami.

 

Best,

-Tim

Leica Miami only sells MM1 cameras with the new replacement sensor.  Why buy privately? I called on a Friday.  They didn’t have any so I asked them to call me if one came in.  They called me the following Monday morning, before I even bothered to call other dealers. and sent me the mint camera that day that just came back to them from Germany. Miami paid for the new sensor as well as a full service. $3500, under 5k actuations, and prices have since come down.

I always buy through reputable dealers, with warranty. Leica Miami is not the only one; others have the same MM policy regarding replacement sensors.  

Jeff

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[Timmyjoe]

Glad that worked out for you.

 

Best,

-Tim

[Jeff S]

The posts were meant for your benefit, not mine.  

Jeff