Chaemono Posted September 28, 2018 Share #441 Posted September 28, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) One can’t shoot a fashion event with a MF camera. It may be possible with these Panasonic bodies. The key question for me is how good is the AF. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 Hi Chaemono, Take a look here New Panasonic Full Frame with SL Mount?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sillbeers15 Posted September 28, 2018 Share #442 Posted September 28, 2018 Now that Nikon, Canon, Panasonic & Sigma has joined into the Mirrorless market. I highly suspect that Canon & Nikon are shifting their DSLR product line over to Mirrorless over time as it calls for repurchase of camera & lenses although an adapter can allow mirror less camera users to utilise DSLR lenses. Others see it as an opportunity to take on some of Canon & Nikon user market along the conversion to mirror less process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 28, 2018 Share #443 Posted September 28, 2018 Let's hope that Leica uses this as an opportunity to further develop their "das wesentliche" philosophy. Given that there is now another SL mount camera that is overloaded with buttons and tries to do everything, perhaps the next SL can have video deleted, make the camera body smaller, and make it more minimalist. That is M territory... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted September 28, 2018 Share #444 Posted September 28, 2018 Video delete button I support. No to reducing camera size. Firstly, the SL lenses are not compact, reducing the camera dimension does not have an overall effect impactful to user. More importantly, the M camera has a shorter Long exposure than SL due to overheating sited as the reason due to camera dimension and poor heat dissipation property. Reducing the SL size will kill the landscape photography application and reduce the camera’s functionality. Interesting. I like the small sizes of the M (and LTM) lenses. IBIS would make the heat dissipation even worse with its free hanging and actuated sensor. See discussions in the FM forum, Sony division. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted September 28, 2018 Share #445 Posted September 28, 2018 Mike Owen states in this interview that Panasonic is chasing Nikon and Canon professional sales and is also setting up a Lumix professional support network That's interesting. I was recently emailed by a friend who had broken a Panasonic lens and wondered who to send it to. I had to do a web search myself and its the manufacturer or a few other repairers. It would make great sense to have 'cross platform' (L-mount) repair facilities to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted September 28, 2018 Share #446 Posted September 28, 2018 Let's hope that Leica uses this as an opportunity to further develop their "das wesentliche" philosophy. Given that there is now another SL mount camera that is overloaded with buttons and tries to do everything, perhaps the next SL can have video deleted, make the camera body smaller, and make it more minimalist. Haha, the "Das Wesentliche" excuse again . I doubt there will be another SL in the future, but if Leica indeed does so, it will sell even less than the current model due to the competition with Panasonic in such case. The photo market is changing quickly, and I applaud Leica that it now tries to do the same and to keep up with technology and doesn't try to reinvent the wheel in regard to electronics where other companies (Panasonic, Sony etc) are miles ahead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 28, 2018 Share #447 Posted September 28, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just wait for the SL2 It may not sell to you, but the L partners are without doubt serious about product differentiation. Leica M cameras have always sold better than Bessa or Zeiss rangefinders, despite the same mount and a substantial price difference. The "miles ahead in electronics" is a hoary old chestnut. They buy them either from one another or from the same Chinese and Indian suppliers. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted September 28, 2018 Share #448 Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) Just wait for the SL2 It may not sell to you, but the L partners are without doubt serious about product differentiation. Leica M cameras have always sold better than Bessa or Zeiss rangefinders, despite the same mount and a substantial price difference. The "miles ahead in electronics" is a hoary old chestnut. They buy them either from one another or from the same Chinese and Indian suppliers. The sensors are not bought from sporadic Chinese or Indian suppliers . But other electronics certainly are like with everything these days. Digital Leica M cameras still sell for the outrageously high prices since there is no competition - up to now with the just released Zenit camera (which is also not cheap and still made in collaboration with Leica). I also expect the Leica M to continue as it is since it is a good seller for Leica - here I agree. Edited September 28, 2018 by Martin B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 28, 2018 Share #449 Posted September 28, 2018 No, the SL sensor comes through Panasonic channels. And? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 28, 2018 Share #450 Posted September 28, 2018 The sensors are not bought from sporadic Chinese or Indian suppliers . But other electronics certainly are like with everything these days. Digital Leica M cameras still sell for the outrageously high prices since there is no competition - up to now with the just released Zenit camera (which is also not cheap and still made in collaboration with Leica). I also expect the Leica M to continue as it is since it is a good seller for Leica - here I agree. Part of the 'high prices' is due to the actual production cost for the optical rangefinder … it's a precision component manufactured to exacting standards. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted September 28, 2018 Share #451 Posted September 28, 2018 Digital Leica M cameras still sell for the outrageously high prices since there is no competition. Well there is no reason why another company couldn't compete. Unless costs are too high and potential sales too low to make a cheaper RF camera worthwhile . Something to ponder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted September 28, 2018 Share #452 Posted September 28, 2018 Don't know whether folks have seen this yet, but apparently it was Panasonic, early 2018, that approached Leica and Sigma with the idea of the consortium. https://www.l-rumors.com/ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted September 28, 2018 Share #453 Posted September 28, 2018 Part of the 'high prices' is due to the actual production cost for the optical rangefinder … it's a precision component manufactured to exacting standards. dunk Suuuuure.....I rather believe the manufacturing cost is 40% or less of the sales price of the digital rangefinder M cameras. But hey, if people pay for it, it's not my problem! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted September 28, 2018 Share #454 Posted September 28, 2018 I wonder what Yosuke Yamane means by the ‘new AI autofocus system.’ Below is a paper I found on automatically constructed machine-learning-based algorithms for CDAF in order “to find the lens position that corresponds to the image with the maximum or highest peak of the focus measure φ(p) over some set of lens positions p ∈ {a,a + 1,...,b}.” He could mean that. Such algorithms coupled with the new Venus processing engine would result in significant speed improvement for the S1’s and S1R’s DFD-AF system. Very exciting. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0955/06fe4a8a006dfa222903528c427e7554eec4.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted September 28, 2018 Share #455 Posted September 28, 2018 Well there is no reason why another company couldn't compete. Unless costs are too high and potential sales too low to make a cheaper RF camera worthwhile . Something to ponder. Yes. In the film days, there were several other companies making quite nice and reliable rangefinder cameras, too. But currently Leica has a monopoly for the digital rangefinder cameras - maybe there is some patent restriction which would make it hard for potential competitors? I really doubt it is the cost of manufacturing - Chinese/Japanese companies could easily make this kind of system, too. Probably it is more a thing of low demand - not worthwhile at this point for others to vest into this kind of technology with availability of P&S, DSLRs, and now even MLCs. For a kickstarter initiative it might be too cumbersome to develop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 28, 2018 Share #456 Posted September 28, 2018 Suuuuure.....I rather believe the manufacturing cost is 40% or less of the sales price of the digital rangefinder M cameras. But hey, if people pay for it, it's not my problem! With the sensor alone costing (net) 1800 Euro and the RF mechanism over 1000 to build? I think this post comes into the "I wish" category. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted September 28, 2018 Share #457 Posted September 28, 2018 Suuuuure.....I rather believe the manufacturing cost is 40% or less of the sales price of the digital rangefinder M cameras. But hey, if people pay for it, it's not my problem! Is this different than other high end digital cameras? The claim wasn’t that they are selling at cost or at low margin. The alternative is to have no digital rangefinders on the market. We are almost there. The manufacturers should sell at whatever price they deem appropriate. Consumers can choose not to buy and exert pressure. I would like to spend less for everything I own but I also recognize I have chosen to buy what I have. Because of this complaining about price or even commenting it to be too high is not logical for anything outside staple goods. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted September 28, 2018 Share #458 Posted September 28, 2018 For my sins, I also go by Jo, Jonny as well as Jonathan so I guess I can get an admin to change if it’s confusing ? Don't change it, I also go as Jon and Jonathan (but never Jonny). I'm not confused, you're not confused, and who cares about non-Jonos 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted September 28, 2018 Share #459 Posted September 28, 2018 Don't change it, I also go as Jon and Jonathan (but never Jonny). I'm not confused, you're not confused, and who cares about non-Jonos The non-Jonos concur, regardless. We can distinguish by the difference in pronunciation. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted September 28, 2018 Share #460 Posted September 28, 2018 Should we not put this thread into suspended animation for 6-8m until we actually see some Panasonic gear, if not another SL? ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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